Some rules clarification for my 3rd ed Warlock

[LordVyreth]

My first Warlock character is getting into higher levels and more advanced incantations, and I was hoping for a few rules clarifications for the decisions I can make now.

First, when deciding the DC for an Eldritch Blast's effects, is it based on the total level of the Blast or the effect that requires the save? For example, if I had Frightful Blast (2nd level,) and Eldritch Chain (4th,) would the DC for the fear effect be base 12 or base 14?

Second, what if both effects had the same save, like Eldritch Cone and Repelling Blast? Would there just be one save or two, and if two saves, do targets who make the save against the Cone effect (and don't simply evade it,) still have to make the second save?

Third, how does stacking metamagic spell-like abilities work? I assumed that you just added the level penalities together. For example, if I had Empower Spell-Like Ability (1/2 caster level -2,) and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (-4,) I couldn't use them both on the same blast unless I was a 14th level caster and only used a 1st level Eldritch Blast (14/2 = 7 - 2 - 4 = 1.) That seems reasonable, but I'm not sure if it's accurate.

And lastly, how can you Eldritch Blast when grappled? That actually came up last game. The DM allowed it, but we were up against a Bonedrinker AND a Boneclaw, so he might have just been lenient for our basic survival purposes.

 

[frankthedm]

Oops, posted this already for you, but I forgot to send you a PM. sorry.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3r...me-rules-clarification-my-3rd-ed-warlock.html

 

[LordVyreth]

No problem. Sorry I posted in the wrong forum in the first place.

 

[irdeggman]

First, when deciding the DC for an Eldritch Blast's effects, is it based on the total level of the Blast or the effect that requires the save? For example, if I had Frightful Blast (2nd level,) and Eldritch Chain (4th,) would the DC for the fear effect be base 12 or base 14?

The "level" is the highest level of effect on the EB - not the total.

So in the example given the EB is a 4th level equivalent effect.

Second, what if both effects had the same save, like Eldritch Cone and Repelling Blast? Would there just be one save or two, and if two saves, do targets who make the save against the Cone effect (and don't simply evade it,) still have to make the second save?

Good question - I am not sure on this one.

Third, how does stacking metamagic spell-like abilities work? I assumed that you just added the level penalities together. For example, if I had Empower Spell-Like Ability (1/2 caster level -2,) and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (-4,) I couldn't use them both on the same blast unless I was a 14th level caster and only used a 1st level Eldritch Blast (14/2 = 7 - 2 - 4 = 1.) That seems reasonable, but I'm not sure if it's accurate.

The same way as do metagic effects for spells - they take up the spell slot of the "total" level modifications - so it is te cumulative level for the effects.

And lastly, how can you Eldritch Blast when grappled? That actually came up last game. The DM allowed it, but we were up against a Bonedrinker AND a Boneclaw, so he might have just been lenient for our basic survival purposes.

Nope - all invocations require a somatic component and thus you can't use things that require a somatic component while grappled.

 

[frankthedm]

The same way as do metagic effects for spells - they take up the spell slot of the "total" level modifications - so it is te cumulative level for the effects.

You sure? I'm away from Complete arcane, but Monster Feats :: d20srd.org#quickenSpellLikeAbility does not mention any raising of the ability's effective level, did CA add that into the other Meta-SLA feats?

 

[irdeggman]

You sure? I'm away from Complete arcane, but Monster Feats :: d20srd.org#quickenSpellLikeAbility does not mention any raising of the ability's effective level, did CA add that into the other Meta-SLA feats?

You are right - they don't seem to "stack".

 

[Falling Icicle]

First, when deciding the DC for an Eldritch Blast's effects, is it based on the total level of the Blast or the effect that requires the save? For example, if I had Frightful Blast (2nd level,) and Eldritch Chain (4th,) would the DC for the fear effect be base 12 or base 14?

14.

"A warlock can apply an eldritch essence invocation and a blast shape invocation (see below) to the same blast. When a warlock uses both kinds of invocations to alter an eldritch blast, the spell level equivalent is equal to the spell level of the eldritch blast, the level of the eldritch essence invocation, or the level of the blast shape invocation, whichever is higher." CA. p. 9

Second, what if both effects had the same save, like Eldritch Cone and Repelling Blast? Would there just be one save or two, and if two saves, do targets who make the save against the Cone effect (and don't simply evade it,) still have to make the second save?

There would be two saves and creatures would have to make both regardless of whether or not they succeeded at one of them. There is no conflict since eldritch essence invocations are saves to resist some effect, while blast shape invocations have saves for half-damage. A creature could take half damage but still be subject to the negative effect, or vice-versa.

Third, how does stacking metamagic spell-like abilities work? I assumed that you just added the level penalities together. For example, if I had Empower Spell-Like Ability (1/2 caster level -2,) and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (-4,) I couldn't use them both on the same blast unless I was a 14th level caster and only used a 1st level Eldritch Blast (14/2 = 7 - 2 - 4 = 1.) That seems reasonable, but I'm not sure if it's accurate.

Metamagics, with the exception of Heighten spell, do not change a spell's level. They merely use a higher level slot, or in the case of the spell-like abilitiy metamagics, can only be used 3 times per day on spell-like abilities of a certain level or lower.

And lastly, how can you Eldritch Blast when grappled? That actually came up last game. The DM allowed it, but we were up against a Bonedrinker AND a Boneclaw, so he might have just been lenient for our basic survival purposes.

All Warlock invocations, including eldritch blast, have a somatic component, so you'd need to make a concentration check to cast one while being grappled.

 

[Dandu]

Can't do it even with a concentration check.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Can't do it even with a concentration check.

Oops, you're right. It's a pretty good idea for warlocks to take Sudden Still Spell for this very reason.

 

[Shin Okada]

And lastly, how can you Eldritch Blast when grappled? That actually came up last game. The DM allowed it, but we were up against a Bonedrinker AND a Boneclaw, so he might have just been lenient for our basic survival purposes.

With Sudden Still feat (Complete Arcane), once per day.

Though invocations are not spells but spell-like abilities, they have a special rule that you can apply sudden metamagic feats.


Using Eldritch Blast 1/day while grappling may be worthless. But it is not a bad idea for a warlock to have this feat anyway, especially if he has Flee the Scene invocation.

Or, buy some command word teleportation items such as Boots of Big Stepping (MIC).

Or Ring of Freedom of Movement.