log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E Some warlock house rules (sorry)

TallIan

Explorer
So with the hexblade available for some time, the endless discussions about the blade 'lock has gone quiet. So I'm a little sorry to bring it back up.

I don't really have a problem with the hexbalde, but I prefer the fluff of pact of the blade somewhat. I find it falls a little short in dps and survivability and offers very little compared to Pact of the Chain or Tome.

So I wanted to add a little something to the pact, centered around the blade part of the pact.

War Fiend/Fey/whatever
Essentially give the blade lock the Warpriest Feature keyed off CHA. This gives the warlock a slight dps boost.

Pact guard
As a reaction you can use your pact weapon to guard against an enemy's melee attacks. Until the start of your next turn you may ad your CHA modifier to your AC. Once you use this feature you may not use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

jmartkdr

First Post
I'd just attach the Hex Warrior feature form Hexblade to anyone who takes Pact of the Blade, regardless of patron. You get medium armor and shields, which solves most of the defense issues, and CHA to attack which makes you almost a single-ability class (you still need decent dex and con, but +2 is plenty.)
 

ad_hoc

Hero
While Blade Pact is the weakest of the pacts, the pacts are all fairly minor abilities. Blade Pact gives you a melee option. That's what it is for. That's it. Turning it into a full subclass' worth of stuff swings the balance too far.

I'd just attach the Hex Warrior feature form Hexblade to anyone who takes Pact of the Blade, regardless of patron. You get medium armor and shields, which solves most of the defense issues, and CHA to attack which makes you almost a single-ability class (you still need decent dex and con, but +2 is plenty.)

You just made Blade Pact the best choice for all Warlocks. And it's not even close. This is also why the Hexblade is grossly overpowered. It is by far the best patron for every Warlock.
 


jmartkdr

First Post
While Blade Pact is the weakest of the pacts, the pacts are all fairly minor abilities. Blade Pact gives you a melee option. That's what it is for. That's it. Turning it into a full subclass' worth of stuff swings the balance too far.

The problem I have with Pact of the Blade as-is is: it provides you with a useless melee option, since you can't realistically get close enough to use it without getting smeared. And if you use a spell slot to defend yourself, you're not hitting hard enough to make the attack worth doing. So it's a false option.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
My advice would just be to merge the Hexblade into the Pact of the Blade.
Some bits become pact features, others become invocations.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
The problem I have with Pact of the Blade as-is is: it provides you with a useless melee option, since you can't realistically get close enough to use it without getting smeared. And if you use a spell slot to defend yourself, you're not hitting hard enough to make the attack worth doing. So it's a false option.

It is to be used when the enemy gets to you. It's really not hard for enemy creatures to approach PCs in 5e. So this gives Warlocks a good melee option. You don't want to have disadvantage on your Eldritch Blast. You could take a different attack cantrip but a weapon attack will deal more damage.

So it's about versatility. It can't be a full package like the Valour Bard. That's what the Hexblade was supposed to be. The Warlock essentially has 2 subclasses. A major one and a minor one. The pacts are minor, only people want the Blade Pact to be a major benefit. So enter Hexblade only they both over did it and the theme of it is horrendous.
 

TallIan

Explorer
I'd just attach the Hex Warrior feature form Hexblade to anyone who takes Pact of the Blade, regardless of patron. You get medium armor and shields, which solves most of the defense issues, and CHA to attack which makes you almost a single-ability class (you still need decent dex and con, but +2 is plenty.)

This makes blade pact hexblades redundant and makes the PotB somewhat overpowered. Adding medium armour to the PotB as a fix was thrown around a lot before the hexblade patron came out and falls over when someone takes PotB, Agonising Blast, Repelling blast and runs screaming at the first sight of melee.

Part of the pact boons inckudes the invocatiins they unlock.

It does, but I find that PotB has to spend all their available invocations just to be ok, while the other pacts don't have to make such a big investment in their chosen pact.

While Blade Pact is the weakest of the pacts, the pacts are all fairly minor abilities. Blade Pact gives you a melee option. That's what it is for. That's it. Turning it into a full subclass' worth of stuff swings the balance too far.

They are supposed to be minor, but the other pact options are considerably better.

Pact of the Tome, offer three cantrips, basically a feat. Magic Initiate it two cantrips and a level 1 spell. If Feat of the Tome were an option I would definitely take it any time I would consider MI.

Pact of the Chain is not quite so close to MI, as it effectively gives you a level 1 spell with some extra cool stuff. If there was a Feat of the Chain, I would likely not take it over MI but spending a feat for a familiar is something I would consider IF there was no other way to get one.

PotB, which basically gives you weapon proficiency in what ever you want, compares to Weapon Master. But the way 5e works weapon proficiencies, this really isn't much. I've never heard anyone say Weapon Maser is a good feat. If anything it's got to be one of the worst.

So my thinking in adding some extra stuff is that Warpriest compares to Martial Adept. Warpriest gives you 3 to 5 extra attacks per LR, while MA gives you 3d6 extra damage (spread over the day) and a cool effect. So I was looking to add a feat that isn't great (Martial Adept) to a feat that is outright bad (Weapon Master) to make a class feature that was slightly improved.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
Magic Initiate is much better than 3 cantrips. MI is also not great on a full caster such as the Warlock.

There are diminishing returns. The 3rd cantrip (in the Warlock case, the 6th) is not as powerful as the previous 2.

The level 1 spell can be very good. It can give a non-caster a familiar for example.

At most you can have cha to atk/dmg with the pact weapon. Anything more than that swings the balance too far.

Chain pact is the best of them but Tome has the best invocation unlock so it's about even.

The pacts are each worth around a half feat.
 

TallIan

Explorer
Magic Initiate is much better than 3 cantrips. MI is also not great on a full caster such as the Warlock.

There are diminishing returns. The 3rd cantrip (in the Warlock case, the 6th) is not as powerful as the previous 2.

The level 1 spell can be very good. It can give a non-caster a familiar for example.

At most you can have cha to atk/dmg with the pact weapon. Anything more than that swings the balance too far.

Chain pact is the best of them but Tome has the best invocation unlock so it's about even.

The pacts are each worth around a half feat.

I'll accept that they aren't worth a full feat, but we seem to be in agreement that PotB is the weakest. I don't think I've seen anyone take weapon master, and I don't think I would ever consider for any serious character.

Do you really think that +3 to +5 damage on every attack is less powerful that 3 to 5 extra attacks per LR?

Lifedrinker comes into play at level 12, so I was trying to avoid duplicate effects. What I would like to get is the base damage of your "blade" to be somewhere near to EB, so that you then have a choice of enhancing EB or you melee attacks. Keeping the normal attack and damage bonus to choosing STR or DEX I think helps to balance this approach as you can't get 20 in DEX,STR and CHA. This means that you have to choose a primary, secondary and tertiary stat; STR if you want big damage; DEX if you want great AC or CHA if you want to still be an EB spammer with a burst of weak melee if you get stuck.
 

Xeviat

Community Supporter
Supporter
I think if you look at PotB the way I do, it's a lot weaker. How much benefit would you give to a melee version of the Eldritch Blast cantrip? Not very much I suspect. Especially if you have taken agonizing blast, eldritch blast is a 1d10+Cha attack with Cha to hit, and you get multiple attacks with it automatically. If eldritch blast is a fair cantrip, then a melee eldritch blast would be as well.

For a long time, I've wanted to remove the current blade invocations and make PotB give you a melee weapon with Cha as the attack stat, have attacks scale at 5th, 11th, and 17th like EB, and allow it to be used as a focus and to perform somatic components for warlock spells. Its then akin go the Agonizing Blast invocation, an extra cantrip (melee eldritch blast, but up to 2d6 damage for a greatsword), without hurting their ability to cast spells. I might even consider some kind of AC bonus, but I wouldn't want to make PotB the choice option.
 

Tersival

First Post
Personally I lean towards just giving PoB Warlocks "Eldritch Blow", a melee spell attack version of Eldritch Blast and the corresponding invocations - options that don't stack with/effect Eldritch Blast or magic weapons (potentially creating tough tactical choices if the warlock finds a nice magic weapon).

Bladelocks DPR is boosted by a strong attack option but they remain a glass cannon, and Eldritch Blast is no longer the clearly most superior cantrip choice.
 

TallIan

Explorer
At most you can have cha to atk/dmg with the pact weapon. Anything more than that swings the balance too far.

What would you say to hits with the pact weapon casting hex on the target. That would essentially grant 1d6 damage on most hits (as long as you aren't concentrating on something else). The effect on ability checks might make this option a little too powerful though.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
It'd be fun to see what the Warlock would look like if the Blade/Chain/Tome was the major theme of the archetype and the patron was the second minor decision point to flavor the whole thing, mostly by adding there special spell list.

Edit: tried a little something

Warlock
Lvl 1 feature: Warlock Pact
Lvl 2 feature: Patron's Boon (expended spell list)
Lvl 3 feature: Invocations


Pact of the Blade
Also known has Hexblades, the those warlock delved in the
forbidden magic used to bolster their own fortitude and prowess.


lvl 1: Hex Warrior, per XGtE Hexblade


Lvl 3: Hexblade Curse, per XGtE Hexblade


lvl 6: Extra Attack


lvl 14: Battle Magic: When cast spell, can make an attack as a bonus action.


Pact of the Tome
Called Witches by the little folk, those learn the shadowy secrets of spells
from beyond this reality.


Lvl 1: Book of Shadow , per PHB


lvl 3: Dark One's own Luck, per PHB


lvl 6: Armor of Hexes, per XGtE Hexblade


lvl 14: Dark Delirium, per PHB


Pact of the Chain
Also known as Binders, those warlock explore dark magic to coerce unnameable
entities from this world and beyond.


lvl 1: Chained Familiar, per PHB


lvl 3: Bounded manifestation: Can use spell with familiar as origin.


lvl 6: Mighty Summoner, per XGtE Shepherd.


lvl 14: Create Thrall, applicable to Fiend, Celestial and Fey. Per PHB GOO
 
Last edited:

Stalker0

Legend
Personally I lean towards just giving PoB Warlocks "Eldritch Blow", a melee spell attack version of Eldritch Blast and the corresponding invocations

This is my thought as well. Just let the PoB use all of the eldritch blast abilities as a melee weapon. Simple and Easy.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
I wouldn't make Eldritch Blow scale by number of attacks, because then it's too similar to the Fighter. I'd make it an ally-friendly AoE centred on the caster, and have it's area scale.
 

Xeviat

Community Supporter
Supporter
I wouldn't make Eldritch Blow scale by number of attacks, because then it's too similar to the Fighter. I'd make it an ally-friendly AoE centred on the caster, and have it's area scale.

But does the Warlock Eldritch Blast scaling make them too similar to an Archer Fighter?
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
But does the Warlock Eldritch Blast scaling make them too similar to an Archer Fighter?
Somewhat, but not to the same degree. A lot more ranged support specifies ranged weapon attacks than melee support specifies melee weapon attacks.
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top