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Sonic damage in Silence?

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Silence is creating a bubble of null-sound blocking both the perception and damaging effects of sound. An illusion that blocked sound would protect you from suggestion but not a horn of blasting.

Eh? I'm going to be devil's advocate here... There is plenty of precedence for this with invisibility. Exactly how sonic attacks work isn't specified in the rules very well (damaging or not).

Gaze attacks are eliminated by the creature being invisible, also an illusion (glamer), or by the target being blind. Why? Because you obviously need to perceive the creature visually and invisibility and blindness eliminates that perception. So the lack of perception through an illusion (glamer) can certainly nullify a damaging attack.

silence works the same way on all sonic effects. It eliminates the perception of sound completely, making such attacks useless in the area affected. It doesn't matter if they are damaging or not. A bard's countersong ability doesn't discriminate between sonic attack types either.

Deafness is not the same as silence. Unlike blindness, a deafened (or deaf) person can still perceive sound, although it may not be aural (i.e. through the ear). With silence, "all sound is stopped." It's not that you can't just hear it.
 

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ZansForCans said:
Eh? I'm going to be devil's advocate here... There is plenty of precedence for this with invisibility. Exactly how sonic attacks work isn't specified in the rules very well (damaging or not).

Gaze attacks are eliminated by the creature being invisible, also an illusion (glamer), or by the target being blind. Why? Because you obviously need to perceive the creature visually and invisibility and blindness eliminates that perception. So the lack of perception through an illusion (glamer) can certainly nullify a damaging attack.

silence works the same way on all sonic effects. It eliminates the perception of sound completely, making such attacks useless in the area affected. It doesn't matter if they are damaging or not. A bard's countersong ability doesn't discriminate between sonic attack types either.

Deafness is not the same as silence. Unlike blindness, a deafened (or deaf) person can still perceive sound, although it may not be aural (i.e. through the ear). With silence, "all sound is stopped." It's not that you can't just hear it.

Eliminating the perception of sound won't save you from a horn of blasting, nor does being invisible protect you from searing light.
 

Irritating Stick said:
I'm probably going to take crap for this, but whats the practical difference between Silence protecting you from sonic damage and spells like Mirror Image and Displacement protecting you from damage by not getting hit?

I mean, shouldn't Blur be an Abjuration spell, since it does the same thing as Entropic Shield (actually more, since Blur applies to all attacks)?
Irritating Stick.....ahahahaahahahah.....what an odd game.

Does it really matter what school? They did the best they could to keep things balanced, just go with the flow. It states clearly that it does protect vs. sonic damage. Can anyone say "case closed"?

As far as the other books like MaoF and others, that's what happens when you let splatbooks override core rules. Whatever vagueness (at least with this topic) there was with 3.0 or other books seems to have been cleared up with 3.5.
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Eliminating the perception of sound won't save you from a horn of blasting, nor does being invisible protect you from searing light.

searing light has nothing to do with sight. It does untyped damage. The ray of light is just flavor except for the spell's ability to do extra damage to particular undead. Why would this have anything to do with invisibility?

And why do you say eliminating the perception of sound doesn't save you? How does protection of energy (sonic) really work? We aren't told. For that matter how does sonic damage really work? We aren't told. We can infer a little by some side affects and flavor bits created by effects that do sonic damage, but that's about it.

But none of that changes the fact that silence is not alone in preventing an attack form by removing perception. As I explained above, invisibility does the same for gaze attacks from an invisible creature. In fact, any effect that requires you to see a foe (or thing) to be affected is prevented if the foe (or thing) is invisible. That's all I was pointing out--it's not unique being an illusion (glamer) that seems to go outside the boundaries of affecting 'reality'.
 

I see nothing in the gaze attack description in the srd that says invisible creatures no longer have a gaze attack. If anything it would make it more deadly.

Is there errata somewhere? is the faq making up new rules again?

Still, glamers cannot produce real change. Negating sound is a 'real change', misdirecting someone to attack somewhere you are not is not a real change.
 

Scion said:
I see nothing in the gaze attack description in the srd that says invisible creatures no longer have a gaze attack.

You mean like third paragraph from the end, "Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks"?

-Hyp.
 

SRD:
Gaze (Su): A gaze special attack takes effect when opponents look at the creature’s eyes. The attack can have almost any sort of effect: petrification, death, charm, and so on. The typical range is 30 feet, but check the creature’s entry for details. The type of saving throw for a gaze attack varies, but it is usually a Will or Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 gazing creature’s racial HD + gazing creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A successful saving throw negates the effect. A monster’s gaze attack is described in abbreviated form in its description. Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in the initiative order. Only looking directly at a creature with a gaze attack leaves an opponent vulnerable. Opponents can avoid the need to make the saving throw by not looking at the creature, in one of two ways.
Averting Eyes: The opponent avoids looking at the creature’s face, instead looking at its body, watching its shadow, tracking it in a reflective surface, and so on. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack. The creature with the gaze attack, however, gains concealment against that opponent.
Wearing a Blindfold: The opponent cannot see the creature at all (also possible to achieve by turning one’s back on the creature or shutting one’s eyes). The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment against the opponent.
A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent’s action and once during the creature’s turn.
Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents. A creature is immune to gaze attacks of others of its kind unless otherwise noted.
Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round. The creature also can veil its eyes, thus negating its gaze ability.


Invisibility
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) or Yes (harmless, object)
The creature or object touched becomes invisible, vanishing from sight, even from darkvision. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.
Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.
Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.
Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell.
Arcane Material Component: An eyelash encased in a bit of gum arabic.

-------
I may just be missing it. copy and highlight the relevant text if you will ;) it is very late so perhaps I am just reading over it without seeing.
 

Scion said:
I may just be missing it. copy and highlight the relevant text if you will ;) it is very late so perhaps I am just reading over it without seeing.

Ah. You're reading the Monster Manual section (Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities), instead of the DMG section (Special Abilities and Conditions).

Check there.

-Hyp.
 

Scion said:
I may just be missing it.

You sure are: "Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks."

Special Abilities & Conditions (SRD) or the glossary of your shiny DMG 3.5. It's under both the Gaze Attacks and Invisibility entries.

And if that weren't enough, the blindfold section above makes it pretty explicit that if you remove the perception of the creature, you remove the chance of the gaze attack affecting you.
 

Hypersmurf said:
Ah. You're reading the Monster Manual section (Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities), instead of the DMG section (Special Abilities and Conditions).

Check there.

-Hyp.

ahh, of course, I was only checking the first two places I found it. I knew that I should've searched for the other 30 random places things might be mentioned somewhere. Wonderful.

Although the gaze (su) in the monstrous manual definately seems to allow it while invisible. They could have put it in that section as well.
 

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