Sooo, that's my players certain not to be subscribing to DDI...

[mrtomsmith]

Are you serious?? The value is FANTASTIC.

The fact that someone could think this isn't a good value just boggles my mind.

It's not as bad if you want the Dragon content, but $120 is a bit much for a magazine. Me, I just want some tools to help me DM. This is not going to be a cost-effective way to get that.

But personally, I'm fine sticking 90% to the Core Rulebooks (the 3 Core Rulebooks, not the redefined "everything is a Core Rulebook" philosophy), so not getting this is no big deal for me. It's just too bad that Wizard's hot new way of making money isn't going to work. I like giving them money when they make good games.

 

[wedgeski]

Pretty much as advertised for months. Nothing here has changed my mind... looks like I'll hit the 3 month sub to try it out before deciding on a longer-term investment.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Are you serious?? The value is FANTASTIC.

For a subscription you get full Dungeon and Dragon content, I think they said 160 pages a month. All for a price LESS than what I paid per year when the print mags still existed.

So already you are ahead.

Additionally you get access to a rules database that has all content from ALL books, even ones you don't own!!

You get the game table (which non-subscribing players can access for 24 hours for like a 3 dollar fee).

And you get the character builder software.

The fact that someone could think this isn't a good value just boggles my mind.

I believe that you "just don't get it", is that right?

See, for my players (i.e. not me, the GM), this is godawful value. They're not going to want to use most of these things, all they'd want is a full-spec'd character creation tool, and the ability to create a mini and play it on the table. The rest of it is so much junk, and they're not going to pay the price of a non-discounted pizza every month just to retain access to said character generator and modeller, because once they've created their character, they're not going to be "feeling the value". In fact, let's be real, they're going to feel ripped-off.

As for Dungeon and Dragon, do you know how much I paid for them? $0 a year. So the value they have to me? Very close to $0, because I wasn't buying them because they didn't help me in any meaningful way. There's no reason to believe 4E will change that.

The character creation and model builder software is 90% useless to me, because I'm a GM, not a player.

So basically I get the game table, which is 100% useless to me if I have to PAY just to let my friends play with me, and access to the rules. Wow, now you're making even ME think it's not worth it, and I was planning on getting it...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Based on previous comments (which, admittedly could be out-of-date), they were considering allowing a D&D subscriber will likely have a number of slots they can "pass on" as a DM at a table. For example, maybe every month you'll be able to have 8 passes (which would allow 2 of your players to join a once/week game). I can't find the exact reference in Didier Monin's posts on the WotC forums.

More than likely that's what they were referring to when they said "can sponsor people playing on your table."

Well, either all my players will be at the virtual table, or none of them, that's the thing. If I do get 8 "passes" a month, then the value would increase dramatically for me, as that'd let all four of my players attend twice a month (which is how often we tend to play anyway).

However, I tend to believe we'll be look at more like 2 "passes"/month. It's even possible that you'll need a pass to get the $3 for 24 hours rate, though hopefully that's crazy.

 

[Leopold]

not buying this. not paying for this. I'll wait till I see scads of Value Added Content before I show them the money.

If worse comes to worse, 6 months later, I subscribe for a month, grab all the information I need and then cancel.

There I got me 6 months worth of data for $15. Now THAT's a deal!

 

[Novem5er]

I believe that you "just don't get it", is that right?

See, for my players (i.e. not me, the GM), this is godawful value. They're not going to want to use most of these things, all they'd want is a full-spec'd character creation tool, and the ability to create a mini and play it on the table. The rest of it is so much junk, and they're not going to pay the price of a non-discounted pizza every month just to retain access to said character generator and modeller, because once they've created their character, they're not going to be "feeling the value". In fact, let's be real, they're going to feel ripped-off.

As for Dungeon and Dragon, do you know how much I paid for them? $0 a year. So the value they have to me? Very close to $0, because I wasn't buying them because they didn't help me in any meaningful way. There's no reason to believe 4E will change that.

The character creation and model builder software is 90% useless to me, because I'm a GM, not a player.

So basically I get the game table, which is 100% useless to me if I have to PAY just to let my friends play with me, and access to the rules. Wow, now you're making even ME think it's not worth it, and I was planning on getting it...

100% correct! This is a horrible value for the average player. MOST players don't purchase an individual copy of Dungeon and Dragon magazines. MOST players don't need a rules database for every book that comes out. MOST players aren't using tools to design adventures.

MOST players want a character generator and a table to play at. That's it. You can say that $3 per "sponsored" session is not a bad deal, but that value breaks apart when you have a group of people all paying that to play together. For about $4 I can rent a DVD that an entire family can watch; I don't pay per viewer.

What if you play as a couple and you game every weekend. That's $24 a month to simply sit at a DnD table with your wife?! Mind you, a table that has no video chat and 2d monster tokens.

PASS!

Yes, it's a pretty good deal for a DM who runs games regularly or the D&D enthusiast who want to play across the net with other enthusiasts, but these prices are NOT going to attract new players into the fold, nor encourage casual or known-group play.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

It seems you will be able able to use the character generator offline but will need to subscribe to get data updates. Depending on how often you might need updates it might be worth it. $14.95 once a year to connect up and download a years worth of book data.

 

[Mirtek]

The "D&D Insider subscription gives access to all books, not just the ones you’ve bought." sound intriguing. So I basically get every book for $15.

So if I don't care about the art and layout I just subscripe once every X months (whenever I feel enough new books are out), copy the rules as pure text and that's it?

Somehow I have the feeling that it won't be that easy, but as a guy who never bought a 3.5e PHB (sold my 3.0e as 3.5e was released and from that point played entirely with the SRD as my new PHB) that would be the only thing that would make the costs an acceptable deal.

Otherwise I would only be interested in Dragon and $120 is way too much for a non-paper Dragon

 

[Glyfair]

For about $4 I can rent a DVD that an entire family can watch; I don't pay per viewer.

But if you go the movies then you do pay per viewer. Playing at the table is the equivalent of watching a DVD. Playing on the D&D Game Table is the equivalent of going to the movies. (Yes, this isn't an ideal analogy...)

Well, either all my players will be at the virtual table, or none of them, that's the thing. If I do get 8 "passes" a month, then the value would increase dramatically for me, as that'd let all four of my players attend twice a month (which is how often we tend to play anyway).

However, I tend to believe we'll be look at more like 2 "passes"/month. It's even possible that you'll need a pass to get the $3 for 24 hours rate, though hopefully that's crazy.

No idea. I do know that WotC does plan on the "free play" option not being abusable. For example, there will be a limit on the amount of time per session so a player can't join a table
with a "free pass" and stay online for free all month but staying connected.

 

[Cam Banks]

All three home computers and all of the computers here at work (MWP) are Macs. So, I'm not going to be subscribing, either.

Cheers,
Cam