Sorcerer Fix - Continued from "D&D Rules" (PART 2)
- Thread starter Khaalis
- Start date
fuindordm said:
Its cool, the boards have been having problems today seems like.
To Khaalis, I agree with keeping it simple, so okay no spell point system for the special abilities. Some ability cha Mod or 3+ mod or whatever is fine... except for the metamagics. I still say allowing them free uses of metamagic that often could be overpowering.
Now you suggested maybe just going with silent and still spell. That might not be so bad, but once you start going with the empowering and maximising it can be a problem. Even extended and enlarging for free can become an issue.
I guess I'm not clear on what the heritages will actually get the sorc? Right now AFAIK, you get a spell known in your heritage every other level, and then some special abilities every some many levels... is that right?
fuindordm
Adventurer
Stalker0 said:
As I understand it, they get +1 class skill, +1 (ancestral) language, a modified spell selection, and a "domain" of one additional (themed) spell known per level.
For example, Fire sorcerers might get Intimidate as a class skill,
Ignan as a bonus language, the ability to choose any spell with the Fire Descriptor (e.g. Flame Blade, Fire Seeds, Flame Strike),
is denied any spell with the Cold or Water descriptors, and gets a set domain of spells such as Burning Hands, Resist Energy (Fire/Cold), Fireball, Fire Shield, Wall of Fire, etc. Domain spells
would be filled with utility spells by preference, since its purpose
is to add flavor.
In addition, each heredity would get specific, appropriately themed special abilities at the levels listed in Khaalis' first post. The first such ability for a fire sorcerer might be 5 pts of fire resistance, for example. A later one might be to gain Fast Healing (1) when immersed in a normal fire. And so on...
The general sorcerer would get similar bonuses, but with more of a "generally arcane" theme as described.
So the main differences will be in the spell selection and special abilities.
--Ben
Khaalis,
I think with bonus metamagic feats useable n times a day, having metamagic feats not adding to casting time, and assorted other nuances, we're at risk of:
(a) making the sorcerer too complex
(b) making the sorcerer too powerful.
Making the sorcerer an arcane spellcaster who spontaneously manifests arcane powers by sticking to a particular theme is a sufficient differentiator from wizards.
Remember, no-one's said the sorcerer sucks as a core class. There is a perception that it's a little weaker than the other core classes. You've already increased its power substantially by:
(a) increasing Hit Dice to d6;
(b) giving light armour proficiency;
(c) increasing skill points to 4 + Int bonus;
(d) increasing the number of class skills;
(e) increasing the number of spells known per level.
The core class needs nothing more. Add anything more, and start taking some of the above away, otherwise you have a class that's not balanced against the other classes.
Having now slept on my suggestion from last night, I'd like to make it a bit clearer:
At 1st level, every sorcerer must choose an "Affinity" - which subsumes those concepts previously termed "herdity" and "spell path". I have no problem with the 25 or so you've proposed from other sources, but let's just call them one thing for simplicity's sake. I'll call them "Affinity" but I'm sure other wordsmiths can come up with something more appropriate.
Each Affinity has five elements:
1. Description: One or two sentences which state the underlying theme or concept of the Affinity. For example, the Blood of Dragons description might simply be "The blood of dragons courses through your veins, imbuing you with arcane power". The description must be short and general enough to permit the player and DM to determine specifics themselves.
2. Limitations: Any limitations on who can take the Affinity. For example, if there is an Affinity called "Demonspawn" (you have some evil outsider blood), it might have an alignment limitation; as might an Affinity called "Touched by the Divine". An Affinity called "Elfchild" might have a race limitation. Etc.
3. Benefit: Like cleric Domain Powers, each Affinity grants the sorcerer a specific game-related benefit, such as a bonus language, additional class skills, bonuses to some skills, a bonus feat, +1 caster level for Affinity spells, or some spell-like ability or supernatural power. As for cleric Domain Powers, the benefit must be balanced against the utility of the Affinity spells and any Affinity limitations.
4. Affinity Spells: One spell of each level, including 0-level. These spells are automatically known by the sorcerer on attaining the necessary caster level.
5. Innate Abilities: At 2nd level, the sorcerer can use their 0-level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. The sorcerer can elect to keep the spell in their list of known spells, or change it for another of equal level. If they elect to keep it in their list of known spells, they can use it as a spell-like ability more than 3 times/day, but each additional use "consumes" one of the sorcerer's 0-level spell slots for the day.
At 7th level, the sorcerer can use their 1st level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. They can also keep it on their list of known 1st level spells, or exchange it for another, as for the 0-level Innate Ability.
At 13th level, the sorcerer can use their 2nd level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. Keep as known spell or exchange as for 0-level.
At 19th level, the sorcerer can use their 3rd level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. Keep as known spell or exchange as for 0-level.
Cheers, Al'Kelhar
I think with bonus metamagic feats useable n times a day, having metamagic feats not adding to casting time, and assorted other nuances, we're at risk of:
(a) making the sorcerer too complex
(b) making the sorcerer too powerful.
Making the sorcerer an arcane spellcaster who spontaneously manifests arcane powers by sticking to a particular theme is a sufficient differentiator from wizards.
Remember, no-one's said the sorcerer sucks as a core class. There is a perception that it's a little weaker than the other core classes. You've already increased its power substantially by:
(a) increasing Hit Dice to d6;
(b) giving light armour proficiency;
(c) increasing skill points to 4 + Int bonus;
(d) increasing the number of class skills;
(e) increasing the number of spells known per level.
The core class needs nothing more. Add anything more, and start taking some of the above away, otherwise you have a class that's not balanced against the other classes.
Having now slept on my suggestion from last night, I'd like to make it a bit clearer:
At 1st level, every sorcerer must choose an "Affinity" - which subsumes those concepts previously termed "herdity" and "spell path". I have no problem with the 25 or so you've proposed from other sources, but let's just call them one thing for simplicity's sake. I'll call them "Affinity" but I'm sure other wordsmiths can come up with something more appropriate.
Each Affinity has five elements:
1. Description: One or two sentences which state the underlying theme or concept of the Affinity. For example, the Blood of Dragons description might simply be "The blood of dragons courses through your veins, imbuing you with arcane power". The description must be short and general enough to permit the player and DM to determine specifics themselves.
2. Limitations: Any limitations on who can take the Affinity. For example, if there is an Affinity called "Demonspawn" (you have some evil outsider blood), it might have an alignment limitation; as might an Affinity called "Touched by the Divine". An Affinity called "Elfchild" might have a race limitation. Etc.
3. Benefit: Like cleric Domain Powers, each Affinity grants the sorcerer a specific game-related benefit, such as a bonus language, additional class skills, bonuses to some skills, a bonus feat, +1 caster level for Affinity spells, or some spell-like ability or supernatural power. As for cleric Domain Powers, the benefit must be balanced against the utility of the Affinity spells and any Affinity limitations.
4. Affinity Spells: One spell of each level, including 0-level. These spells are automatically known by the sorcerer on attaining the necessary caster level.
5. Innate Abilities: At 2nd level, the sorcerer can use their 0-level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. The sorcerer can elect to keep the spell in their list of known spells, or change it for another of equal level. If they elect to keep it in their list of known spells, they can use it as a spell-like ability more than 3 times/day, but each additional use "consumes" one of the sorcerer's 0-level spell slots for the day.
At 7th level, the sorcerer can use their 1st level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. They can also keep it on their list of known 1st level spells, or exchange it for another, as for the 0-level Innate Ability.
At 13th level, the sorcerer can use their 2nd level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. Keep as known spell or exchange as for 0-level.
At 19th level, the sorcerer can use their 3rd level Affinity spell as a spell-like ability 3 times/day. Keep as known spell or exchange as for 0-level.
Cheers, Al'Kelhar
