Sorcerer: the only class I'm worried about (and how I'd make it)

[LordArchaon]

Well I just hope that they don't cast the same spells that wizards cast, just with some different rules...

I suspect that because in one of the latest Rule Of Three articles they said that with some hindsight, powers could have been organized separated from classes, with some classes drawing from the same list.
Also, have you guys noticed that as of now they're planning to cram A LOT of classes in the very first PHB? It's going to be a huge book... If they did entirely separate spells for Sorcerers, it would become even bigger... Dunno.

 

[Yora]

I love Sorcerers in 3rd Edition. Wizards that don't use the stupid preparing spells system.
If that's what I get for 5th Edition, I am completely happy.

 

[Dausuul]

My one request for the sorceror is that it's not just Blasty McBlasterson. I mean, if you want to play a sorceror who's all blasting, all the time, that's fine, but I'd like a class with more versatility.

 

[tuxgeo]

My one request for the sorceror is that it's not just Blasty McBlasterson. I mean, if you want to play a sorceror who's all blasting, all the time, that's fine, but I'd like a class with more versatility.

Yes, that's another one of the OP's good ideas, here:

. . .
The central problem of the Sorcerer is that we assume they "cast spells". I think that sacred cow should be killed. No, not talking about changing power source (although Elemental was a wasted opportunity...) or even the "spells" in "casting spells". I'd remove the "casting". Because I think they should MAKE spells. They have magic in their blood, not spells. So they should make them, before actually casting them.
I think the sorcerers should be the ONLY class that actually has a spell-making system in it. They should be able to make their spells on the fly, because it is a natural function for them. . . . < snip > . . .

The D&D Wizard can already do metamagic on the fly, at least in the case of the 4E "Enlarge Spell" feat: reduce damage to enlarge the area of effect of a blast or burst. If the OP's suggestion were implemented, Sorcerers would be able to do similar things without having to spend any feats to get there.

 

[Yora]

Comming up with new spells the moment it is my characters turn sounds absolutely unplayable to me. It's bad enough when you have players taking three minutes to chose one of their 40 spells to cast this round, but when you encounter a new monster and the sorcerer player tries to create a new custom spells on the spot, it would grind the whole game to a total halt.

 

[LordArchaon]

Comming up with new spells the moment it is my characters turn sounds absolutely unplayable to me. It's bad enough when you have players taking three minutes to chose one of their 40 spells to cast this round, but when you encounter a new monster and the sorcerer player tries to create a new custom spells on the spot, it would grind the whole game to a total halt.

Well, It can indeed be terrible, but it doesn't have to be. You'd only have two spell seeds for that reason. And you could also have a list of all the most common combinations. Then if you see the need of something different, you'd just try that and if it stays within your power limit, you could do that. In a wilder-like fashion, you could even sometimes "overcharge" and cast something a bit out of your power limits, think Action Point specialty or something...
Anyway, also to address the Blasty McBlasterson problem (cool one, Dausuul ), I first of all think that a sorcerer like this should be able to fill all the 4e combat roles:

- Striker: Blasty McBlasterson, forms such as bolts, small area bursts, lines etc (Fire, Lightning etc, some forms should have more damage than others fo course)
- Controller: specialized in forms such as walls, zones and so on, with wind walls, water whirlpools, earth cages and so on
- Defender: specialized in forms such as melee, shields etc, with cold auras to slow, earth rumbles to prone, blades of ice, electric shock if you attack others and so on
- Leader: specialized in "friendly forms", mainly applying effects to allies, buffs like elemental resistance, energy transference (that cool Artificer power rated sky blue ), free fire weapons for everybody, stoneskin for ally and so on.

That said, I also think more and more they should have a "fundamental spell-seed". There you'd have the most element-neutral and low-power effects for a bit more generalist use. Something to explore, could even become very flavorful.

And another thing I didn't state, I also figured fun out-of-combat uses for on-the-fly creative magic. Pick locks with keys made of pure force would be trivial, conjure bridges of ice, water plus air to create fog, combine elements to form incredible things such as floating force-contained bubbles of water a la Bubble-Bobble, create traps such as mud pits covered by thin layer of solid earth... Creativity is the key! I imagine a sorcerer player interaction with DM being more of the type "can I fly propelled by fire for a bit, to reach that part of the cliff?" - *DM consults his effects-by-level table* - "yes you can, but beware, only 6 seconds of flight and only in a single direction!"... That's the sort of freedom I'd like from a 5e Sorcerer...

 

[LurkAway]

I like Charisma rather than Con. Draconic, Infernal, and Fey sorcerers are, generally, portrayed as charismatic- often intimidating, but sometimes diplomatic, alluring and/or charming.

I NEVER liked Cha-based sorcerers. Once I played a dour sorcerer and just couldn't get over the Cha stat that was creating cognitive dissonance with my character concept.

In drawing upon literary references, I think that people might be confusing causation with correlation. Just because this or that sorcerer has a charismatic personality, it doesn't mean that the magic is fueled or facilitated by personality traits.

So yes, I love the OP idea.

 

[Banshee16]

IMO Paizo nailed sorcerers. That's the direction Paizo should go. I like the idea of sorcerers building spells.....but no edition of D&D has a built in spellmaking system in core and I dom't see that changing.

Banshee

 

[TarionzCousin]

In Monte's Experimental Might, Wizards got to choose some spheres (I forget what it's called exactly) that gave them certain at-will abilities. I expect Wizards will have something similar in 5E.

I would love to see 5E Sorcerers have something akin to Pathfinder's bloodlines. Those really gave a sorcerer options and flavor.

 

[mkill]

If only we had the playtest rules already...

This really has some potential. I'd even prefer if this (Con-based, elemental focus, spell effects on the fly) was an entirely new class. That way, you prevent a "they changed the Sorcerer now it sucks" outbreak.

I'm not too worried that this kind of spell system would bog down the game too much. Systems like Mage or Ars Magica use on-the-fly spells, and they do pretty well with it. There is a thread on rpg.net right now here someone made such a system for 4E. All it takes is a table with the necessary parameters (target size, duration, damage...) and the costs (mana points or whatever). None-attack spells would also need an Arcana check DC (or similar).

If I was a D&D writer, I would put such a class in a later splatbook, at a point when players and DMs are familiar with the new edition and look for something innovative.