Sorcerers and Epic Levels

[ruleslawyer]

actually the description suggests that 1 wish does it.

From the ELH:

[The Simbul] sometimes uses a wish to remove a spell she knows from her repertoire to make room for a new one.

That sounds to me as if a wish only allows REMOVAL of a known spell, not substitution of one spell for another. I grant that it's unclear how the Simbul then fills the "empty" slot, but I'd say it doesn't happen automatically.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

From the ELH:


That sounds to me as if a wish only allows REMOVAL of a known spell, not substitution of one spell for another. I grant that it's unclear how the Simbul then fills the "empty" slot, but I'd say it doesn't happen automatically.

Let's go and ask her, right? If she won't tell us, we just put it in the "ambiguous description" drawer and let the DM decide (who's got the last word, anyway).

 

[Knightcrawler]

I usually let my players with sorcerer characters change their known spells when they gain a new level. Helps prevent spells that are never used. But only a certain number each level, they can't swap out their entire spell selection. You could base it somehow on their level or something.

This is just a house rule mind you.

 

[Henry]

Actually, I would assume the Simbul would, as any other sorcerer would, fill the now-empty slot.

There is technically no rule that the Sorcerer MUST fill the spells known at a given level. Therefore, she would act as a sorcerer who just never filled that particular "spells known" slot.

 

[zimbel42]

For the second part of your question:

First, particuarly for sorcerers, Epic spells are nigh useless in combat. Improved Metamagic with multiple Empower spells stacked on a lower level spell can be very nice, even before you get Improved Spell Capacity (Ex: 45d6 4x empowered Cone of Cold costs only a LV 9 slot). Sure, it consumes extra time, but at LV 21+, you're always Hasted, aren't you? After a few Improved spell capacities, your Meteor Swarms can start doing nice damage again, and then you're in buisness.

If you want to use Epic spells, here's my suggestion (if your DM lets you get away with it): Go for a DC in the range of 48. Then make it perminant (DC 240), add in another caster casting a 9th level spell, and extend the casting time to 100 days, 10 min (DC 3). Over the space of a little over a year, cast it on each party member. This way, you get an easy to make, cheap spell that's pretty useful. Example things that can be done for DC 3 or less:
Armor +21
Energy Resistance (any 1): 16
Inherint bonus +5 to any 1 stat
SR 30
DR 17/+6
Reflect Spells LV 1-2 (The version in the book is mis-calculated)

In the campaign I'm helping run, I'm considering suggesting minning out the Epic spell DCs at 10 or so

 

[orbitalfreak]

Epic Spell DC's

Here's an example of how high you can actually get your Spellcraft Checks to go, for purposes of casting Epic Spells:

Assuming level 27 character
30 ranks
+2 skill focus
+10 epic skill focus
+30 Ring of Spellcraft (18,000 gp, according to DMG)
+8 (26-27* in Spellcraft Key ability [either Int, or Cha if using ELH optional rule])
_____
total of +80 to spellcraft, allowing on average, the acheivement of Spellcraft DC 90.

* this can be acheived by:
15 base, adding to it every level up (6 of 'em), gives you 21. Then a Headband of Intellect +6, or Cloak of Charisma +6 (each costs 36,000 gp) will give you 27 in that ability.

This leaves off Inherent bonuses and increases from Epic feats.

 

[zimbel42]

Spellcarft item cost

This is true, if the DM allows +spellcraft items as cheap as described in the DMG. For that matter, with the resources at hand for a LV 27 char, you should be able to do better than a +30 item. (+38 costs 288,800 - around 10% of your gold).

However, in the Epic level handbook, there's an item: Rod of Epic Spellcaster which grants a +10 insight bonus on Spellcraft checks made to cast epic spells while holding the rod.

The cost of this item is 245,400.

To me, this implies that perhaps the normal, cheap circumsatance bonus items should not be purchasable for Spellcraft.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: Spellcarft item cost

The cost of this item is 245,400.

That's because it's an insight bonus and it doesn't use up an item slot.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I usually let my players with sorcerer characters change their known spells when they gain a new level. Helps prevent spells that are never used. But only a certain number each level, they can't swap out their entire spell selection. You could base it somehow on their level or something.

This is just a house rule mind you.

I do something similar with sorcerers in my game, but not so often. Every level seems excessive to me. I allow the sorcerer to drop one spell for another spell of the same level at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. This gives the sorcerer something every 5 levels like the wizard without stepping on the wizard's toes.