D&D 5E Soulknife Knack problems (Is it incredibly powerful?)

[Valdier]

DC 25: ascertain that the room is free of mundane traps. If you succeed you know no trapis there. Die expended.

That is certainly a good way to say the class is a complete failure at your table. To make sure they are out of psi points in the first three rounds of waking up every day.

"You wake up, make a perception check. Yep, you failed to see anything... want to roll a die? Ok, dice was spent. There was nothing, you succeed."
Six seconds later, repeat ad nauseum for the rest of the adventuring day... sounds like great DM'ing...

The question is rules as written and how to work around them as a DM, not "how can I make the game not fun for the player and completely ruin the subclass".

RAW, this subclass is exceptionally powerful, almost to the point of game breaking. I've already talked to my players about house ruling it (because it's a broken power of extreme capability), but I'm trying to see if there is anyway to run it without changing the RAW and not have it fundamentally change the rules of the game. (I sometimes volunteer and run AL games and this is ripe for abuse).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That is certainly a good way to say the class is a complete failure at your table. To make sure they are out of psi points in the first three rounds of waking up every day.

"You wake up, make a perception check. Yep, you failed to see anything... want to roll a die? Ok, dice was spent. There was nothing, you succeed."
Six seconds later, repeat ad nauseum for the rest of the adventuring day... sounds like great DM'ing...

The question is rules as written and how to work around them as a DM, not "how can I make the game not fun for the player and completely ruin the subclass".

RAW, this subclass is exceptionally powerful, almost to the point of game breaking. I've already talked to my players about house ruling it (because it's a broken power of extreme capability), but I'm trying to see if there is anyway to run it without changing the RAW and not have it fundamentally change the rules of the game. (I sometimes volunteer and run AL games and this is ripe for abuse).

Ok. That is quite a stupid argument. I can't even imagine how someone as a DM even thinks about such a bs. If you inten screwing with other players, don't play a cooperative game.
If you however want a nice game, both arties DM and players should use the rule in good faith.
If a player tries to not burn a psi die to always check if some secret door is there, knowing that they never spend the die seems also like not using rules in good faith.
Actually as a player you can't evoke a roll. Rolling in each and every place just for fun also tells you a lot. If you roll low there is uncertanity left. If you roll high and does not find anything, you are quite sure there is nothing. That can be seen as a success in a way.
As a DM you can stop such a behaviour by telling the player: you can make one roll. Every roll thereafter will get no additional information.
For the psi die usage, you can also say: DC 20 (or 25) means that you can ascertain that there are no common secret doors or traps. That is a success in a way. The knowledge that you can now walk without fear. Without taking another 20 minutes to double check if there really is not anything. Invoking the die as the player ad infinum seems as you say yourself borderline broken... But it takes a DM that allow the player such a behaviour.
Also you don't have to be dishonest with the player. You can just tell him: if he breaks DC 20, he will know for certain if there is any threat at all, if they search for threats.
If the DM does not act in good faith: he can always say: you now see a little spider. Spend your die.
Asking for perception checks to see if everything is clear is also a very bad behaviour.
Really. It is nice you spotted that "loophole", glad for you. But in actual play, if you have arguments over such a rule, you better stop right there.

 

[Dausuul]

DC 25: ascertain that the room is free of mundane traps. If you succeed you know no trapis there. Die expended.

This doesn't make any sense. There is no way you can absolutely ascertain the absence of a trap. Whatever you roll on your skill check, you must always consider that there could be a trap with a DC 1 higher than that. If you roll a 25, there could still be a DC 26 trap.

That's why this whole debate is silly. When you make a check to find something, and there's nothing to find, there is no DC to find the nothing! The check always fails. So knowing that you failed does not give you any information, and there isn't a problem.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This doesn't make any sense. There is no way you can absolutely ascertain the absence of a trap. Whatever you roll on your skill check, you must always consider that there could be a trap with a DC 1 higher than that. If you roll a 25, there could still be a DC 26 trap.

That's why this whole debate is silly. When you make a check to find something, and there's nothing to find, there is no DC to find the nothing! The check always fails. So knowing that you failed does not give you any information, and there isn't a problem.

Hmm... Not really. If there is nothing, the DC might be 0 and always a success...
But I´d wager, that you can set a limit for mundane threads.

Where I agree is, that the whole debate is silly. Since if both DM and players use their abilities in good faith, there is no problem.
We had such a thread, where someone proposed just to use eldritch blast (which only works on creatures) to blast every thing in a room, just to make sure it is no mimic, or something alike. Exactly the same.

 

[jgsugden]

Except factually under the Knack write up, it explicitly says it does.

No, it does not tell the DM to tell a player whether it succeeds or not. Read it again. It says you can use the ability when you fail a check, but there are not instructions to tell the player it failed. If it is not obvious, the player may need to guess.

 

[jgsugden]

DMs on this thread have suggested interpretations, under the RAW, that are nonproblematic. If people wish to stick to their guns and refuse to look to the non-problematic interpretations, there is nothing to be done to assist with their plight.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No, it does not tell the DM to tell a player whether it succeeds or not. Read it again. It says you can use the ability when you fail a check, but there are not instructions to tell the player it failed. If it is not obvious, the player may need to guess.

Good catch. Although I think, being hones about something is not a bad Idea.
Probably, if the player rolls High anyway, they might just use the die and see what happens. Usually it is a constant bonus of 1 psi die that cost´s nothing... just makes good rolls even better. And why not. Usually if you wanted to use the die anyway, you are not afraid of losing it.
Still I do stand my point, at some DC, it is still unclear what is a success for perception, the same may go for stealth. At which point does it count as a success... if you beat 1 passive perception, or all? Or if you make the check when you start sneaking, before anyone makes their roll. If you beat everyone´s perception check, you may not use the roll? After an enemy makes an active search check, does your roll retroactively fail and you may use your roll?
Probaby the best way to handle such a situation would be just asking the player what they count as a success and just allow them to keep it up spending the die, or dismiss it not spending it. For stealth or perception, probably it is for the player to decide, what is a success and what not.

 

[Quartz]

So reading through the Soulknife I noticed, the can use this, anytime they fail an ability check. If they succeed they spend the point, if they fail they don't.

I'm unfamiliar with the Soulknife but this mechanic is at variance with other die-expenditure mechanics. Lucky? Spend a die regardless of success or failure. Guidance? Spend the die regardless. Battlemaster manoeuvres? Spend the die regardless. Inspiration? Ditto.

 

[Rellott]

So reading through the Soulknife I noticed, the can use this, anytime they fail an ability check. If they succeed they spend the point, if they fail they don't.

As a DM, how will you handle this?
[...]
How will you handle this and/or am I reading this wrong?

You twice clarify in the original post that you’re asking others for their opinion and interpretation, acknowledging that maybe you’re reading the feature wrong. Despite this, you have spent the rest of the thread arguing with people who present a different opinion than yours and explain to you alternate ways of reading the feature.

If you think it’s a problem with the feature, it seems like you’ll have to come up with your own answer, because pretty much everyone else in the thread has had a similar opinion to each other and you refuse to acknowledge that their opinions ... that you asked for ... are valid.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

For every ability check there is a DC.

I know this is just a nitpick, but I wanted to point out that this isn't correct. Initiative is an ability check, and it has no DC. This doesn't effect this knack ability, as the writing specifies that you must "fail an ability check", though.