Space Adventure RPGs
Yora
Legend
While I am working on a space setting that I really like so far, I keep being terribly undecided on whether I should run a campaign with Scum and Villainy or with Stars Without Number. Both seem really quite similar in their setting assumptions and tend towards the lighter end of rules density. I think both would be great choices, but I can continue with only one. (At least per campaign.)
To anyone familiar with both games, what are your subjective pros and cons for either system? What things do you think one does better than the other, and for what kind of campaign style would they be particularly well suited?
To anyone familiar with both games, what are your subjective pros and cons for either system? What things do you think one does better than the other, and for what kind of campaign style would they be particularly well suited?
I'm familiar with the last two, but I'm struggling to identify the first one.
Do you mean "Falkenberg's Legion" by Jerry Pournelle? (It doesn't match either of your spellings but looks like it might fit.)
Yora
Legend
Here's something interesting that I found, regarding what scale of travel time could be plausible between planets of an interstellar empire.
In 1914, a military convoy from Australia to Cairo spend seven weeks at sea transporting soldiers to support the invasion of Turkey.
In 1944, reinforcements for Pearl Harbor took 12 days for the journey from Los Angeles to Honolulu.
If you base the ideas for planetary colonies on remote cities in the early 20th century before air travel became common, these are the kind of travel times that people apparently were fine to put up with. 50 days in hyperspace to get to the homeworld, or 10 days just to reach the nearest other colony appears to something that would work for colony worlds with only a million inhabitants. For all intents and purposes, cities like Honolulu or Perth could just as well exist as the only major settlement of a whole planet. And that was at a level of modern technology dependence not even a hundred years ago.
In 1914, a military convoy from Australia to Cairo spend seven weeks at sea transporting soldiers to support the invasion of Turkey.
In 1944, reinforcements for Pearl Harbor took 12 days for the journey from Los Angeles to Honolulu.
If you base the ideas for planetary colonies on remote cities in the early 20th century before air travel became common, these are the kind of travel times that people apparently were fine to put up with. 50 days in hyperspace to get to the homeworld, or 10 days just to reach the nearest other colony appears to something that would work for colony worlds with only a million inhabitants. For all intents and purposes, cities like Honolulu or Perth could just as well exist as the only major settlement of a whole planet. And that was at a level of modern technology dependence not even a hundred years ago.
aramis erak
Legend
CoDo Verse is indeed initiated with Falconberg's Legion... but it's the same setting as Niven/Pournelle use (at the other end of the timeline) with the Mote in God's Eye, and it's sequels.
Co-Do from Co-Dominion - the government of the era...
aramis erak
Legend
All of them with trade systems create a play-loop, albeit one that often is very mechanistic...
Traveller, for example... key terminology issue: cargo is owned by the ship or a crewmember; freight is owned by others and sent as hired space. Passengers are special kind of freight.
- Decide destination
- post for passengers and freight
- check the speculative cargo available and decide whether to buy or not
- accept and load cargo, passengers, and freight.
- MegaT: GM checks for significant encounters for the week
- depart and head for jump point.
- GM checks for space encounter
- jump
- check for arrival encounter
- proceed to destination port
- offload freight and passengers
- See if it's worth selling cargo
- back to 1.
Space Opera's loop looks almost identical.
A similar loop exists for Star Wars d6 in GG6: Tramp Freighters
GURPS: Traveller differs in the details, but uses a similar loop.
ALIEN also has a trade mission generator, with a play loop that's different in interesting ways...
- Exit hyperdrive
- Wake non-synth crew
- ship maintenance
- random encounter
- arrive at world
- discharge mission (if possible)
- find new mission (if space available)
- depart world
- random encounter
- crew sleep
- enter hyperspace
- repeat
Trade and commerce as a play loop can get old very fast, but it's definitely a play loop that can be added to any SFRPG with ships.
I've even used the CT/MT trade system in a car wars campaign.
Yora
Legend
Related to the topic of gameplay structure, what about incentives, rewards, and encouraged behavior?
With characters in these kinds of games typically opperating a space ship, and combat equipment often being highly customizable, there are lots of opportunities to spend money to the point that PCs will probably never run out of things they would want to buy if they could afford them. Which makes money a much more useful long term incentive than in most fantasy games.
However, many games also have some kind of exprience points as a secondary resource and reward that makes characters stronger, more durable, and might even gain access to new powers.
A good XP system in any RPG provides players with XP for behaving in the kind of ways that are considered typical for protagonists in the kind of fiction the game aims to mirror. Since players never say no to opportunities for more XP, they are generally quite happy to go with the option that is promising XP when they have to make a choice what to do next. Without the GM giving any kind of nudges what the players should or should not do, in the long term such XP incentives lead to the rewarded behaviors becoming quite common. And the players will enjoy action somewhat strongly stereotypical even when a game with a different tone would be just as possible. At least if the players are buying into the initial premise for the game.
The more codified the reward system is and the less it depends on the GM's subjective approval of the PCs actions, the more control the players have to judge for themselves the rewards and risk of their possible actions. In the most extreme case, if players have no idea what behavior will get them XP and how many, XP would not work as an incentive at all. Particularly when going for a kind of sandbox campaign, giving the players the full rules of how their characters will make XP is a very helpful tool to enable proactive PCs. Knowing what kinds of things would get good XP greatly reduces the tendency for decision paralysis.
In a Space Scoundrels on a Starship adventure, what kind of quantifiable actions, behaviors, and accomplishments would we want to see from the players to create the tone of this style of fiction?
Combat certainly is a common feature, but I think just as important is the daring escape from overwhelming foes. Giving XP for defeated enemies would encourage staying around in a fight much longer than serves any point in the narrative because it would get the players more XP than immediately jumping into their vehicle and speed away.
Similarly, since money already has a great value in itself and can be directly translated into more combat power, tying XP to money gained doesn't seem very useful either.
With characters in these kinds of games typically opperating a space ship, and combat equipment often being highly customizable, there are lots of opportunities to spend money to the point that PCs will probably never run out of things they would want to buy if they could afford them. Which makes money a much more useful long term incentive than in most fantasy games.
However, many games also have some kind of exprience points as a secondary resource and reward that makes characters stronger, more durable, and might even gain access to new powers.
A good XP system in any RPG provides players with XP for behaving in the kind of ways that are considered typical for protagonists in the kind of fiction the game aims to mirror. Since players never say no to opportunities for more XP, they are generally quite happy to go with the option that is promising XP when they have to make a choice what to do next. Without the GM giving any kind of nudges what the players should or should not do, in the long term such XP incentives lead to the rewarded behaviors becoming quite common. And the players will enjoy action somewhat strongly stereotypical even when a game with a different tone would be just as possible. At least if the players are buying into the initial premise for the game.
The more codified the reward system is and the less it depends on the GM's subjective approval of the PCs actions, the more control the players have to judge for themselves the rewards and risk of their possible actions. In the most extreme case, if players have no idea what behavior will get them XP and how many, XP would not work as an incentive at all. Particularly when going for a kind of sandbox campaign, giving the players the full rules of how their characters will make XP is a very helpful tool to enable proactive PCs. Knowing what kinds of things would get good XP greatly reduces the tendency for decision paralysis.
In a Space Scoundrels on a Starship adventure, what kind of quantifiable actions, behaviors, and accomplishments would we want to see from the players to create the tone of this style of fiction?
Combat certainly is a common feature, but I think just as important is the daring escape from overwhelming foes. Giving XP for defeated enemies would encourage staying around in a fight much longer than serves any point in the narrative because it would get the players more XP than immediately jumping into their vehicle and speed away.
Similarly, since money already has a great value in itself and can be directly translated into more combat power, tying XP to money gained doesn't seem very useful either.
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
We have done the XP song and dance before, so I wont rehash how unnecessary I find it conceptually. In a general space campaigns, like most Traveller games, the players are free to explore the setting in any myriad of ways. Want to be explorers? Ok. Want to help oppressed and downtrodden people? Also, ok. Want to become ruthless pirates? Yeap, ok too. Want to move between all those things as they become convenient and/or interesting? Perfect! One of the best features of flat leveling and no XP is how freeing it is for the players to explore in a truly open game fashion.
That said, if you really want to focus on a particular experience, than I can see XP as guiderails. Also, some players are hopeless when faced with ambiguity and choices, so its a very useful tool for them. I'd look at PbtA and Free League games like Alien to avoid XP, but no reason xp cant follow a similar purpose too. These games tend to have "playbooks" and lean heavily into their themes. Horror exploration, corporate espionage, particular role play quirks of characters etc... You advance while engaging on the expected conceits of the game style and campaign. Instead of such direct methods as playbooks, you can just chunk it into any number of small XP rewards to leave a breadcrumb trail for players to follow.
That said, if you really want to focus on a particular experience, than I can see XP as guiderails. Also, some players are hopeless when faced with ambiguity and choices, so its a very useful tool for them. I'd look at PbtA and Free League games like Alien to avoid XP, but no reason xp cant follow a similar purpose too. These games tend to have "playbooks" and lean heavily into their themes. Horror exploration, corporate espionage, particular role play quirks of characters etc... You advance while engaging on the expected conceits of the game style and campaign. Instead of such direct methods as playbooks, you can just chunk it into any number of small XP rewards to leave a breadcrumb trail for players to follow.
Thomas Shey
Legend
Okay, I never heard of any of these either.
If you weren't around In The Day, that's not that surprising (though there are modern incarnations of both C&S and V&V in existence, they're much more obscure than they were back then).
