Spear and Shield

[youspoonybard]

Why wouldn't you use a shortspear instead of this?

Because it would be a 1-handed reach weapon? Threaten reach with your spear, close with your shield?

 

[Legildur]

A bit farther afield, the Improved Buckler Defense feat from CW lets you apply the buckler bonus while wielding two weapons or a two-handed weapon, with a -1 to attacks. The two-handed weapon bit's in the errata, so make sure you check that out.

My emphasis in quote.

John Q, I just went to the Errata page at WotC and couldn't see any errata for Complete Warrior. Complete Arcane and Complete Divine, yes, Complete Warrior, no.

Is this Feat perhaps listed elsewhere and with a different errata file?

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Hmmmm, strangeness...it must've been in an FAQ or something, I'm almost certain I saw it in an official source...I dunno, perhaps I just saw some random chap's post

 

[Testament]

I've been working on this myself actually, trying make it work, since I ADORE the image of the Hoplite. What I've come up with is a Combat Style feat for my game:

Hoplite Warrior [Style]
Prerequisites: BAB +3, Combat Reflexes, Hold The Line, Improved Shield Bash, Phalanx Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longpsear)
Benefit: You may wield a Longspear while still carrying a Light or Heavy shield. You may not benefit from the shield bonus to AC while fighting with the longspear, except when you are set against the charge.

Feel free to critique, this is only the first attempt at the feat.

 

[Legildur]

Hmmmm, strangeness...it must've been in an FAQ or something, I'm almost certain I saw it in an official source...I dunno, perhaps I just saw some random chap's post

No probs. I've seen quite a few people say that the feat applies to 2-handed weapons as well, but while it seems attractive, it is not how it is written at the moment. Besides, do 2-handers really need the upgrade?

 

[Greylock]

I've been working on this myself actually, trying make it work, since I ADORE the image of the Hoplite. What I've come up with is a Combat Style feat...

Have you seen the Hoplite build suggested in ENWorld Gamer 2? It doesn't overcome the problem of the shield, but the suggestions make a great Hoplite warrior.

 

[Pinotage]

No probs. I've seen quite a few people say that the feat applies to 2-handed weapons as well, but while it seems attractive, it is not how it is written at the moment. Besides, do 2-handers really need the upgrade?

This is the only text I could find. Some people argue that since it mentions two-handed weapons, Improved Buckler Defense applies to two-handed weapons as well.

Pinotage

Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

 

[Klaus]

I'm in the shortspear camp. Along with shortsword (though it would have been called a gladius, if I'm not mistaken).

Large wooden shield, though. And breastplate. There's no good equivilent in D&D for the greaves and helmet that were integral to the traditional hoplite panoply.

There's a feat called Phalanx Fighting in Complete Warrior I believe, but I don't recall what it does. Hoplites weren't really skilled warriors, rather they were masses of common soldiers taught to fight together and use their shields in an interesting way. An elite hoplite would probably focus on shield feats like Improved Shield Bash and any others not in the SRD.

Read the description of the breastplate. It comes with helmet and metal greaves, and leather covering the shoulders and a leather skirt or pants. It *is*, in fact, hoplite armor.

 

[Andre]

I would like to make a character that uses a longspear (or pike) and a shield - mainly because I have a miniature that I really like

How does one do this in D&D 3.5 rules-wise? (the Monkey Grip feat has been changed to talk about wepaon sizes rather than using a 2-handed weapon in one hand).

If you use anything like real-world physics in your game, this shouldn't work. Wielding a large shield and a longspear in single combat never happened. Hoplites carried a short thrusting sword (similar to the roman gladius) for use when either their spear broke (which often happened when two phalanxes first came together) or when the combat broke down into individual melee (which usually meant one phalanx was broken and its hoplites were fleeing).

As an experiment, take three or four broom handles, secure them into one length, and hold with one hand. Grab a heavy bag of wet laundry in the other. Now ask a friend to try and get past your spear as if he's attacking you. He'll succeed every time.

I don't always agree with the RAW, but this is one case where they really do make sense.

 

[TheEvil]

Historically, the pikes used in the macendonean phalanx had a counterweight at the butt end to make them more manageable. The shield they used was straped to the forarm and both hands held the pike. The above is from the History Channel, but others on this discussion have said the same thing. I expect when they dropped their pikes, they probably got a better hold on their shield.

However, having established that one CAN fight with a pike in both hands and a shield strapped to the forearm, this doesn't mean you want to fight this way one-on-one. This fighting style relies completely on the tightly packed pikes to make it viable. A lone pikeman is no particular hazard by himself. As I am sure anyone who has fought in the SCA or other various groups (mostly Amtgard myself) can tell you, an unsupported longspear user is a dead one. Only D&D combat mechanics make it a viable strategy, so I would not be inclined to add rules allowing someone to use a longspear and a shield.

If you really wanted to, I would say make a martial weapon: Counter-Weighted Pike that allows the wielder to have a light shield strapped to their arm without penality to the attack rolls, but would not benifit from the shield while using the pike. This method adds a martial weapon that any fighter can use rather then adding a feat that are better spent elsewhere. It probably also better reflects the historical reality, as far as that goes.

If you use anything like real-world physics in your game, this shouldn't work. Wielding a large shield and a longspear in single combat never happened. Hoplites carried a short thrusting sword (similar to the roman gladius) for use when either their spear broke (which often happened when two phalanxes first came together) or when the combat broke down into individual melee (which usually meant one phalanx was broken and its hoplites were fleeing).

As an experiment, take three or four broom handles, secure them into one length, and hold with one hand. Grab a heavy bag of wet laundry in the other. Now ask a friend to try and get past your spear as if he's attacking you. He'll succeed every time.

I don't always agree with the RAW, but this is one case where they really do make sense.