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Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
The text refers to all silatics as getting two pseudopod attacks. A gold should get a third, or, since it moves faster, always be under the effect of a haste spell.

Demiurge out.
 

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Big Mac

Explorer
Shade said:
Digest Metal looks good.
I've just found one of your monster conversions, where you did a creature called the Khargra:
http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/outsider/khargra.htm

It is an outsider from the elemental plane of earth that eats weapons. It also has a Digest Metal (Ex). On top of that it has a Break Weapon (Ex) ability. It might be worth looking at that, in case it works better than what I just wrote.

Shade said:
Before I forget, I think only the gold is supposed to have two attacks, despite the stat block stating the iron has two as well, since the text indicates "Gold: Moves faster than other silatics, gaining one extra attack per round".
All Silatics have two pseudopods. They can attack with both, but prefer to attack "one handed" while "eating" with the other "hand". The begining of the combat section has the important text:

Silatic - Combat section said:
The silatics's two pseudopods administer bludgeoning damage of 1d6 + 4. Each adult silatic's pseudopod can extend to 50'. They attack only if disturbed while eating or prevented from feeding. Usually, one pseudopod remains attached to the food while the other attacks an opponent. If injured, the silatic detaches from the food source and attacks the offender with both pseudopods.
I've now got a mental picture of a monster fighting while eating a sandwich! :D

As Demiurge said, the Gold Silatic must be fast to get an extra attack in.

Erm....

Hang on a moment...

Something is wrong in the original stats.

When you said "...I think only the gold is supposed to have two attacks, despite the stat block stating the iron has two as well..." did you actually mean: "...I think only the gold is supposed to have three attacks, despite the stat block stating the iron has three as well...".

The Iron Silatic is listed as "3" attacks in the stats, but doesn't get the same "extra attack" that the Gold Silatic gets in the combat section. So this is a bug. I would knock the Iron Silatic down to 2 attacks.

BTW: I've also got the Silatic stats typed up and had the same number of attacks for the Iron Silatic. I double checked the actual MC entry, just in case we had both made the same typo. This is a TSR error. (I'd guess it is a copy & paste error.)

Actually, both the other types of Silatics get +3 damage, but the Gold "looses" this +3 damage. Maybe its speed makes it do less damage.

demiurge1138 said:
The text refers to all silatics as getting two pseudopod attacks. A gold should get a third, or, since it moves faster, always be under the effect of a haste spell.
Both the Platinum and Iron Silatics have a Movement of 6, while the Gold has a Movement of 12, so I'd say it was moving twice as fast at the other Silatics. (I actually wonder why they didn't give it 2 attacks while feeding with one pseudopod and 4 attacks when attacking with both "hands".)

I'll have a hunt around for a monster that acts as if under a haste spell.

PS: I'd make Platinum/Iron Silatic speed and number of attacks the "default" speed and attacks and put the Silver Silatic down to their speed, so that it can have +3 damage and a new special attack/defence.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ok, let's try to summarize what we have so far:

Two pseudopod attacks for each, and the gold gets a third (as if hasted). These should be primary natural attacks (slam-like) and do 1d6 base damage and I figure +1-1/2 Str.

Platinum should get some kind of acid (sorry, think the paragraph breaks there confused me), and all of them should get Digest Metal (which looks good to me). For the save DCs, should there be a penalty for objects made of the corresponding metal?

I'm on board for the tactical rating but no natural spelljamming.

I agree with making these separate monsters. A template would be interesting, but I think you'd have to choose 1 from a list of abilities for each type, much like a ghost picks from a list. Anyway, we can see about the silver as we finish with the others.
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
Big Mac said:
I'll have a hunt around for a monster that acts as if under a haste spell.
Just from the SRD, the choker gets an extra action, which is similar. The mithril golem (from the Epic section) is perma-hasted.

Demiurge out.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Big Mac said:
When you said "...I think only the gold is supposed to have two attacks, despite the stat block stating the iron has two as well..." did you actually mean: "...I think only the gold is supposed to have three attacks, despite the stat block stating the iron has three as well...".
Yep, that's what I meant. ;)

We've also given a few other creatures alacrity, most recently...

Alacrity (Su): When making a full attack action, a mantabungal may make one extra gore attack.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Shall we pick one to work on first?

A related question: do we want the gold to have an extra attack with each pseudopod (ie, two attacks if it's holding onto food) or just with a full attack of both pseudopods?
 

Big Mac

Explorer
Big Mac said:
Digest Metal (Ex)
The creature secretes a digestive fluid that dissolves metal quickly as if it was acid, but does not affect organic material or stone. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage, and the opponent’s armor dissolves and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC 21 Reflex saves. A metal weapon that strikes a silactic also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The silactic’s acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.
I've just re-read the blurb and I'm not happy with this. The Khargra Digest Metal doesn't work for me either.

I'm happy with chaining this off of an acid like digestive fluid (that only effects metal), but I think that 21 points of damage is too much and I think that the damage is too fast. I think that the DC also needs looking at.

Silatic said:
A silatic eats by attaching a pseudopod to its meal, excreting a liquid that dissolves the metal, and absorbing it through the skin. It takes three rounds to administer the liquid and three to absorb the liquefied metal. The liquid is harmless to living beings. Metal of the silatic's type saves vs. acid at -5. Metal not of the silatic's type saves at -2.
Looking at this again, it actually takes 3 rounds for a Silatic to start to disolve something and another 3 to absorb the goo it creates. So my original ability would push up the CR of the Silatics.

I think that perhaps we should give it a Digest Metal ability that can be used only if one of its pseudopods touches metal for 3 rounds. I don't especially think that the creature needs to grapple to do this. I think that after three rounds its pseudopods will be coated with digestive fluid that gets onto the next thing the pseuodopod touches.

People are not going to hit the creature's pseudopods, so I've made any metal weapon that hits the creature get digested.

Finally, I've looked at the damage to metal again:

Silatic said:
Against metal ships, a silatic inflicts 1 hull point per turn; against wood, it inflicts normal combat damage.
In SJ combat 1 hull point is approximately the same as 10 hit points. And the conversion manual says that 1 turn is 10 minutes. So that is 1 hit point per minute. With 6 combat rounds being a minute, I'd say that a 3 rounds to excrete and 3 rounds to absorb cycle fits in well with a minute. But 1 hit point every 6 rounds is probably a bit low. (21 hit points is obviously too high, but I think that 1 hp per round is the lowest we could make this.)

Take 2:

Digest Metal (Ex)
Three rounds after a silatic first comes into contact with metal, its psuedopods automatically secrete a digestive fluid that disolves metal as if it was acid. Silatic digestive fluid is targeted towards a specific metal, but is also damaging to any other types of metal. The liquid does not affect living beings or non metallic objects, but when it gets on the surface of living beings and non-metallic objects it will then start to digest metalic items that they later touch.

Any melee hit deals metal digestion damage, and the opponent’s armor dissolves and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC ?? Reflex saves. A metal weapon that strikes a silatic that has secreted digestive fluid also disolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC ?? Reflex save.

The silactic’s digestive touch deals 1 points of damage per round to unattended metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 3 full rounds to start dealing this damage. Once a silatic's digestive fluid has disolved a metal object the creature will spend the next 3 rounds reabsorbing the fluid, and the metal it contains. A silatic that is interupted while eating cannot detect its own digestive fluids, but if the digestive fluid disolves and absorbs metal, the silatic can detect the metal contained within the fluid.


I think this is a bit more true to the original, but its a bit long.
 

Big Mac

Explorer
freyar said:
Shall we pick one to work on first?
That might help avoid confusion between variant abilities if we did one first. How about doing the Iron Silatic first as it has less special attacks than the other cretures (despite what the blurb says). Better magic resistance (than other Silatics) should be easy and the +3 damage can be recycled for the Platinum Silatic.

freyar said:
A related question: do we want the gold to have an extra attack with each pseudopod (ie, two attacks if it's holding onto food) or just with a full attack of both pseudopods?
I was wondering this myself, but isn't this just like a person fighting with two weapons and getting a full attack with their main hand and one attack with the other hand?
 

Big Mac

Explorer
Iron Silatic (1st draft)

The 2e stats has these all down as being 5-7 feet in diameter, which would make all three Medium Oozes.

Are we going to stick with that or scale them up in size in proportion to their HD?

I'll assume (for now) we are sticking with Medium Ooze. Is this bestie an "Iron Silatic" or a "Silatic, Iron"?

Here is a first pop at the Iron Silatic stats:

Iron Silatic

Medium Ooze (Wildspace)
Hit Dice: 6d10+?? (?? hp) [note:10 bonus hp above constitution bonus]
Initiative: ?
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (? Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/?
Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d6+?) [note:+3 bonus damage above strength bonus]
Full Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d6+?) [note:+3 bonus damage above strength bonus]
Space/Reach: 5 ft./50 ft.
Special Attacks: Digest Metal
Special Qualities: Detect Metal, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2 [note:no good saves for oozes - ability adjustments not added in]
Abilities: Str ?, Dex ?, Con ?, Int ?, Wis ?, Cha ? [note: most oozes have high str, low dex, mid-high con, no int, low wis and low cha]
Skills: —
Feats: —
Environment: Any land and space
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: None [note:6d10 lbs of iron scrap]
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: ?-? HD (Medium) [note:adult silatics are 5-7 feet in size - they then split into 3.5 feet creatures - this could be 5 foot size]
Level Adjustment: -

The 2e Silatics actually have an excessivly long reach (50 foot). Do we need to make that a special attack (or special quality) or can we just explain it in the blurb text?
 
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Big Mac

Explorer
Aggressive nature of silatics - CR of silatics

Shade said:
Silatics are amorphous blobs, 5-7' in diameter, that eat metal. Continuously shifting and quivering, they use their two pseudopods to test substances for edibility. The silatic's diet consists solely of the metal they are made of. For example, a platinum silatic eats only platinum. Silatics innately detect the metal they eat within a 100' range.
...and...

Shade said:
Habitat/Society: Silatics are solitary, avoiding other beings by hiding in "uninhabitable" places. Silatics of the same type exhibit instant hostility and fight to the death.
...and...

Shade said:
When a silatic absorbs enough metal (around 100 lbs), it seeks out an uninhabited area and splits in two. The two new silatics, each 3-1/2' wide, are dazed and instinctively move in opposite directions. Five hours after splitting, they regain their senses and search for food. If the reproduction occurs in a confined space, the two silatics fight to the death upon regaining their senses.
...and...

Shade said:
If a silatic is killed, only the metal eaten in the last week can be recovered (usually 1d10 lbs. per Hit Die). All other material dissolves into a jelly-like substance.
I've just realised why silatics of the same type are hostile, but silatics of other types are not hostile. They don't actually dislike each other. They just want to eat each other!

Each silatic is made of the metal it is named after. Each one leaves 1d10 lbs of that metal if it is destroyed. Each one innately detects that metal within a 100 foot range. Each one will move towards that metal it is detecting and try to eat it. Each one will respond to the damage (of being eaten alive), by attacking the thing that is attacking it.

I don't even think these guys need to know that they are fighting another silatic. I figure that if an Iron Silatic and a Gold Silatic ever meet, they would ignore each other and go about the business of eating.

I even think that living beings could hang around with silatics without being attacked (as long as they didn't have any metal stuff).

These things only attack if you stop them eating, or you are made from the same metal as them.

Do you think this would affect the CR these guys get?
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Whew...that's alot to digest!

I'll try to get a Homebrews going on these fellas later today.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Shade said:
Whew...that's alot to digest!

I'll try to get a Homebrews going on these fellas later today.
Yeah, I think homebrews would be helpful for this. It's a bit hard to keep track of all this! Where are we, actually?
 



Hellraider

First Post
In order to decide the scores, you need a target CR... I´d recommend a target CR around their HD. Those guys are permanent underminers (metal is about all we use), and special attack users (unsunderable 50 feet reach...!), their CR should be around their HD +1. From there, you give them the scores you think they will need to live up to the task.
 
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Shade

Monster Junkie
OK, to get these guys going, let's figure out ability scores for them, as they are usually the key to unlocking the rest of the creature.

First, we know Int is 5. Cha should probably be 1, as a few other intelligent oozes still have Cha 1 (like the assassin jelly). Wis is probably average (10-11).

Str would appear to be 18-19 for the gold (based on +4 dmg), and since the other two deal +3 damage over that, probably 24-25 for the platinum and iron.

Dex could be high to achieve the AC of 15. The assassin jelly, for example, bucks the usual ooze trend of low Dex and no natural armor, going with +2 Dex, +3 natural.

Oozes generally have decent Con, many 20 or higher.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Why don't we go with Dex 14-15 for Iron and Platinum and 16-17 for Gold (since it's alacritous).
 


Shade

Monster Junkie
So, for iron silatic...

Str 24-25, Dex 14-15, Con 20+, Int 5, Wis 10-11, Cha 1
+3 natural armor or higher
 
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Shade

Monster Junkie
OK, I tried to gather up some of this and start the iron up in Homebrews.

Since we try to present the monsters as usable with only the official rules, I've moved the spelljammer.org specific material to a "sidebar" at the bottom.
 

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