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Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

Big Mac

Explorer
Shade said:
OK, to get these guys going, let's figure out ability scores for them, as they are usually the key to unlocking the rest of the creature.

First, we know Int is 5. Cha should probably be 1, as a few other intelligent oozes still have Cha 1 (like the assassin jelly). Wis is probably average (10-11).
I can't see any problems with that. We know that the silatics like to stow away on spelljamming ships to hitch a ride from one place to another, so they must have some brains to be able to where to find a ship.

Shade said:
Str would appear to be 18-19 for the gold (based on +4 dmg), and since the other two deal +3 damage over that, probably 24-25 for the platinum and iron.
The +3 was presented as a special attack, rather than increased strength. If the Platinum and Iron Silatics had a bonus to their attacks and damage (with their pseudopods), they could have the same Str score as the Gold. If you push up their strength you make them better at grappling and anything else that involves strength.

Would they work if they had something similar to the Greater Weapon Specialization [General] feat?

Shade said:
Dex could be high to achieve the AC of 15. The assassin jelly, for example, bucks the usual ooze trend of low Dex and no natural armor, going with +2 Dex, +3 natural.
I agree with demiurge1138, that the metal inside the creature could form part of their natural armor. You could probably use the hardness of the metal as a guide to the sort of AC it could give. I can find rules on special materials, but not on "not-so-special" materials. I know that Iron would make better armor than gold and would guess that platinum would go in the middle, but am not sure where each could go. Does anyone have a useful source for strengths of different metals?

Shade said:
Oozes generally have decent Con, many 20 or higher.
From what I could see, they also get a chunk of bonus hp, based on their size.

Shade said:
OK, I tried to gather up some of this and start the iron up in Homebrews.

Since we try to present the monsters as usable with only the official rules, I've moved the spelljammer.org specific material to a "sidebar" at the bottom.
OK. I suppose the fact that they can move slowly through space would also need to go into the sidebar. I'd give them a Tactical Speed of 1 and a Glide ability, rather than a Fly abilty if they become subject to gravity. (Letting them fly on a planet would make them far too powerful, but if they drop out of the sky they would be killed.)

EDIT: Actually having the creatures drop out of the sky and die, could help explain their desire to stay in wildspace and stow away on ships. A tactical speed that didn't translate to a groundling campaign setting could make silatics carry on working for Spelljammer, and create a creature that was rare on planets.

Silatics were not really designed for "groundling" campaigns. They seem to "swim" through space, but the mass of the metal in their body wouldn't be a penalty up there. I'd be hesitant to give them any sort of ability to swim in the sea. (Although as they don't breath, they could walk along the bottom of an ocean.)

When you get to the blurb-text, I think it might be nice for groundling silatics to carry on stowing away on ships. So they might be a creature that is more common in ports. (If they kill crews in mid voyage, they could even be responsible for some of the ghost ships drifting on the seas.)
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Big Mac said:
The +3 was presented as a special attack, rather than increased strength. If the Platinum and Iron Silatics had a bonus to their attacks and damage (with their pseudopods), they could have the same Str score as the Gold. If you push up their strength you make them better at grappling and anything else that involves strength.

Would they work if they had something similar to the Greater Weapon Specialization [General] feat?
I think whether we bump the Str or given them WS and GWS as bonus feats depends on whether we want to make the silatics basically identical to each other, just swapping out a few Special Abilities, or if we want to distinguish them a little more.

From what I could see, they also get a chunk of bonus hp, based on their size.
Where is this from? I don't see this in the Ooze Type description in the SRD.
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
Oozes used to get bonus hp in 3.0. That mechanic got moved to constructs in 3.5.

And I'm all for changing the Str scores of the relevant silatics. It's more flexible and intuitive than a flat bonus to attack and damage.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I think I'd like to change ability scores for the different types, as well. Maybe

Iron: Str 25, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 5, Wis 11, Cha 1
Platinum: Str 24, Dex 15, Con 22, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 1
Gold: Str 19, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 1

Just a little to distinguish the three from each other.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
I'm fine with those ability score arrays, except I see no reason to increase Wisdom for the gold and platinum. OK if we leave that at 11?

Updated based on revised stats.

I agree with demiurge1138, that the metal inside the creature could form part of their natural armor. You could probably use the hardness of the metal as a guide to the sort of AC it could give. I can find rules on special materials, but not on "not-so-special" materials. I know that Iron would make better armor than gold and would guess that platinum would go in the middle, but am not sure where each could go. Does anyone have a useful source for strengths of different metals?
Natural armor is a bit tricky. It isn't usually consistent with the hardness of various metals, but more often attributed to the creature's relative CR. For example, the brass golem has the same natural armor bonus as iron, despite brass being a weaker metal.

If we use freyar's suggested Dex scores, iron and platinum will have +3 natural, while gold will have +2. That seems OK to me, since the creature isn't solid metal, but more like a molten metal. How about the rest of you?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
The only reason I increased the Wis on those was to differentiate them a little, so it's ok to leave it at 11.

Natural armor suggested here is ok.
 


Shade

Monster Junkie
Updated.

Maybe we can modify this for their ability to detect metal?

Metalsense (Ex): All ferrous dragons can sense the location and amount of any non-precious metal (precious metals include adamantine, copper, gold, mithral, platinum, and silver) within a distance of 30 feet x the dragon’s age category. This makes it nearly impossible to sneak up on a ferrous dragon when wearing armor or wielding weapons made from iron or other nonprecious metals. Like blindsense, opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
What about this?

Metalsense (Ex): A silatic ooze can sense the location and amount of its associated metal within a distance of 100 ft. This includes coins, armor, and weapons. Like blindsense, opponents the silatic senses (for example, carrying gold coins or wearing iron armor) but can’t actually see still have total concealment against the silatic.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
That outta work. It will generally rely on blindsight more than metalsense, but the range of metalsense is 40 feet further.
 

Big Mac

Explorer
freyar said:
I think whether we bump the Str or given them WS and GWS as bonus feats depends on whether we want to make the silatics basically identical to each other, just swapping out a few Special Abilities, or if we want to distinguish them a little more.
Given that the Iron and Platinum Silatics, both had +3 damage, I would say that cancels out the "specialness" of that ability. So we get left with an Iron Silatic that has high magic resistance vs a Platinum or Gold Silatic that has a low magic resistance. It doesn't look quite so special when you look at it that way. (They look more like Big Silatic, Fast Silatic and Slow Silatic.)

I would like to see each Silatic (including the Silver Silatic, if we make it) have something special about it - something that no other Silatic has. So if you can think of distinguishing things that gives each one an advantage, I'd be all in favor of that.

We have had some discussion about giving the Gold Silatic 3 attacks or 4 attacks. How about giving the creature 3 attacks, but also giving it a Monk-style Flurry of Blows that can boost that up to 4 attacks. (We could even build Greater Flurry into an advanced HD version of the Gold.)

It might be nice if the Platinum, with extra HD, could also boost its acid attack and the Iron, with extra HD had some sort of anti-magic boost.

demiurge1138 said:
Oozes used to get bonus hp in 3.0. That mechanic got moved to constructs in 3.5.
Thanks for the heads up. It is sometimes hard to keep up with all the 3.0-3.5 changes.

demiurge1138 said:
And I'm all for changing the Str scores of the relevant silatics. It's more flexible and intuitive than a flat bonus to attack and damage.
Fair enough. I just wanted to throw that alternative out to see how it stood up. I suppose it makes sense for the Str, other abilities and other features, to rise in proportion to the original XP stats.

Shade said:
Natural armor is a bit tricky. It isn't usually consistent with the hardness of various metals, but more often attributed to the creature's relative CR. For example, the brass golem has the same natural armor bonus as iron, despite brass being a weaker metal.
Fair enough. (I suppose the counter-argument to the hardness of the metal, would be that softer metal, like gold, could theoretically soak up the impact of blows.)

Is there any chance we could give the Silatics something else associated with their metal, even if it is something that is non-combative.

Shade said:
If we use freyar's suggested Dex scores, iron and platinum will have +3 natural, while gold will have +2. That seems OK to me, since the creature isn't solid metal, but more like a molten metal. How about the rest of you?
I'm mostly onboard with this stat-variation idea. But I wonder if the Gold Silatic is being short changed a little bit. It is down 5-6 Str on the other Silatics, but only gains 1-2 Dex. Shouldn't it have a more similar gain in Dex?
 

Big Mac

Explorer
freyar said:
What about this?

Metalsense (Ex): A silatic ooze can sense the location and amount of its associated metal within a distance of 100 ft. This includes coins, armor, and weapons. Like blindsense, opponents the silatic senses (for example, carrying gold coins or wearing iron armor) but can’t actually see still have total concealment against the silatic.
That is great (and sounds better than Detect Metal). However, I think we ought to mention that Metalsense allows a Silatic to detect another Silatic of the same metal type. How about this?:

Metalsense (Ex): A silatic ooze can sense the location and amount of its associated metal within a distance of 100 ft. This includes coins, armor, weapons and even other silatics of the same metal type. Like blindsense, opponents the silatic senses (for example, carrying gold coins or wearing iron armor) but can’t actually see still have total concealment against the silatic.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I like the addition to Metalsense. I also agree that we should try to distinguish the types of silatics a little more and will think about that some.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Big Mac said:
Is there any chance we could give the Silatics something else associated with their metal, even if it is something that is non-combative.
Sure. Here are some ideas based on info from Wikipedia:

"Gold is the most malleable and ductile metal; a single gram can be beaten into a sheet of one square meter, or an ounce into 300 square feet. Gold leaf can be beaten thin enough to become translucent."

We could allow it to make itself so thin that it gains near-invisibility.

"Heat, moisture, oxygen, and most corrosive agents have very little chemical effect on gold..."

We could give it resistance to acid and fire.

When pure, the metal appears greyish-white and firm. The metal is corrosion-resistant. The catalytic properties of the six platinum family metals are outstanding. For this catalytic property, platinum is used in catalytic converters, incorporated in automobile exhaust systems, as well as tips of spark plugs. Platinum has a cubic crystal structure.

"Platinum possesses high resistance to chemical attack, excellent high-temperature characteristics, and stable electrical properties. All these properties have been exploited for industrial applications. Platinum does not oxidize in air at any temperature, but can be corroded by cyanides, halogens, sulfur, and caustic alkalis. This metal is insoluble in hydrochloric and nitric acid, but does dissolve in the mixture known as aqua regia (forming chloroplatinic acid)."

Resistance to acid, electricity, and fire?

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, short-term exposure to platinum salts "may cause irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat" and long-term exposure "may cause both respiratory and skin allergies."

Maybe its attacks require a saving throw or suffer a -1 penalty on some checks?

"Nuclei of iron have some of the highest binding energies per nucleon..."

We could give it a "binding attack" that allows it to essentially have improved grab/attach against creatures wearing metal armor.

"Iron (as Fe2+, ferrous ion) is a necessary trace element used by almost all living organisms."

We could allow the iron's metalsense to also detect living creatures, due to the iron content in their blood.

Big Mac said:
I'm mostly onboard with this stat-variation idea. But I wonder if the Gold Silatic is being short changed a little bit. It is down 5-6 Str on the other Silatics, but only gains 1-2 Dex. Shouldn't it have a more similar gain in Dex?
Personally, I think the haste attack more than makes up for the stat variation.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I like a lot of these ideas.

Gold: spreading out; acid & fire resistance 10?

Platinum: resistance 10 to acid, fire, & electricity; Fort save or -1 on Dex based checks for 1 hour?

Iron: metalsense animals, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants? The binding attack idea is cool but a bit of a stretch from the nuclear binding energy standpoint. ;)
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
Not a fan of ductility for the gold--these are oozes! They can do that anyway!

Aside from that, all of the other suggestions freyar's picked out appeal to me too.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
demiurge1138 said:
Not a fan of ductility for the gold--these are oozes! They can do that anyway!

Aside from that, all of the other suggestions freyar's picked out appeal to me too.
Well, the gold can go transparent. Not all oozes can do that. But it does mean we'd have to think quite how to write that up.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
So...

Gold: acid & fire resistance 10? It's already got the haste attack, so is probably OK without another special ability.

Platinum: resistance 10 to acid, fire, & electricity; irritating touch = Fort save or -1 on Dex based checks for 1 hour?

Iron: metalsense can sense the iron in the blood of animals, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants (and probably most magical beasts)?

If we do the silver, I'd suggest its attacks are treated as silver weapons for purposes of overcoming DR.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That sounds good. We should note that the iron silatics will be much more aggressive toward most characters due to the iron metalsense.
 


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