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Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes


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Shade

Monster Junkie
Let's move on to the platinum.

Summarizing what we discussed upthread:

Str 24, Dex 15, Con 22, Int 5, Wis 11, Cha 1
+3 natural armor

Shade said:
Platinum: resistance 10 to acid, fire, & electricity; irritating touch = Fort save or -1 on Dex based checks for 1 hour?

Big Mac said:
The catalitic properties sound interesting. I'm not sure if it isn't "too scientific" for D&D, but maybe this could be folded into something else. Maybe Platinum Silatics could "eat" faster than other Silatics (so they take only 2 rounds to produce digestive fluid and only 2 rounds to reabsorb it). I'm not sure on this - I think it needs more thought.

Big Mac said:
How about changing the Platinum Silatics acid coating to a different coating that causes catalitic reactions and irritation? The catalitic reaction could result in acid building up on the surface of the pseudopods and the irritation could be similar to the sort of irritation you get in your eyes when chopping up onions.

How about if the Platinum Silatic scores a hit, their opponant has to make a saving throw to avoid crying for X rounds. Crying could cause a penalty to attck rolls and vision based checks.

Big Mac said:
It might be nice if the Platinum, with extra HD, could also boost its acid attack and the Iron, with extra HD had some sort of anti-magic boost.

freyar said:
Platinum should get some kind of acid (sorry, think the paragraph breaks there confused me), and all of them should get Digest Metal (which looks good to me). For the save DCs, should there be a penalty for objects made of the corresponding metal?

Big Mac said:
EDIT: I've just noticed that the Platinum Silactic does get an acid attack. Maybe we just need a non-acid attack for the other types of Silactic.

We could give the Platinum Silactic an acid attack that is more like the Black Pudding and give the other two Silactic's a more watered down Digest Metal ability. (Unless the Black Pudding acid attack is too much. If that is the case, I'd stick with giving them all Digest Metal and go with freyar's idea for something that only the Platinum Silactic does.)
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Sounds fair enough. I think the original text suggests 2d8 acid damage on top of the platinum's slam. Do we want to go that high?
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Added to Homebrews.

Here's the standard acid ability of oozes:

Acid (Ex): The creature secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material and metal quickly, but does not affect stone. Any melee hit deals acid damage, and the opponent’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC 21 Reflex saves. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a platinum silatic also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The platinum silatic's acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

Do we want to stick with that, and just add the sickening effect? Or do we want to drop the damage to metal and limit it to organic matter, allowing digest metal to deal with metal?
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
What text from digest metal would have to be folded into the acid attack? What would have to be excluded from the acid attack if digest metal was separate?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, Digest Metal is very slow compared to this damage (1 pt damage per round and only after full 3 rounds). Giving the platinum silatic the full ooze acid would make Digest Metal, as currently written, almost useless. So I'd either say nerf the acid to just organic material or else boost digest metal for all the silatics. I think I'd prefer to boost digest metal, honestly, since these things are supposed to be powerful metalvores.
 



Big Mac

Explorer
Shade said:
Big Mac...are you still out there?

I'm still here. I just had a week holiday and am catching up on what you have been doing.

EDIT: I've caught up - see below for my thoughts. :)
 
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Big Mac

Explorer
freyar said:
Well, Digest Metal is very slow compared to this damage (1 pt damage per round and only after full 3 rounds). Giving the platinum silatic the full ooze acid would make Digest Metal, as currently written, almost useless. So I'd either say nerf the acid to just organic material or else boost digest metal for all the silatics. I think I'd prefer to boost digest metal, honestly, since these things are supposed to be powerful metalvores.

Nerf? The only "nerf"s I know are "scruffy looking nerf herders" and the combat game. I take it you mean "cut down" the acid attack to Digest Metal levels.

I think the essential core of these monsters is that they eat metal, but can't dissolve flesh. It is what makes them different from an average ooze.

Boosting their Digest Metal ability or cutting down the Platinum's Acid effect to flesh would be two good ways to go. Another alternative would be to give the Platinum a reduced speed acid attack (at Digest Metal speed).

Comparing the second edition "Oozes/Slimes/Jellies" entry to the third edition Ooze could help us see where the differences are. The 3.5e Gelatinous Cube has an acid attack (that only eats flesh). In 2e, all Gelatinous Cube damage was treated as digestive acid, so it has been bumped up with regular damage. The 3.5e Grey Ooze has had its "Corrodes Metal" replaced by an "Acid" attack that is DC dependent. The 3.5e
Ochre Jelly has an acid attack (that only eats flesh). Again the 2e Ochre Jelly damage was all treated as digestive acid, so this has also been bumped up with regular damage. (The Crystal Ooze and Green Slime are not in the SRD, so I didn't review them.)

I would say that the Grey Ooze, with its "corrodes metal" ability, is the closest thing we have to a silatic. Maybe we should look at that and play "spot the difference". The Grey Ooze starts to digest metal instantly - all silatics take 3 rounds to secrete their digestive fluid and another three to absorb the dissolved metal*.

* = I don't think that slows down the silatic's metal eating attack, The "3 rounds to secrete" just gives silatics 3 rounds to prepare the attack. The "3 rounds to digest" gives creatures 3 rounds to run away (or regroup) while a silatic eats anything they dissolve. (Silatics have no interest in flesh, so until you actually cause damage to a silatic, you could slow one down for six rounds by dropping something like a metal coin as you retreat.)

A 2e Grey Ooze, "corrodes metal" at different rates, while a silatic seems to corrode metal instantly after the third round, but offers saving throws vs acid -5 for the metal type and -2 for other metals).

It seems to me that a silatic Digest Metal attack is an acid attack (that only targets metal and has an advantage against its specific metal type). Apart from the Platinum Silatic (and perhaps the Silver Silatic), I think we should stick to these creatures not getting an acid attack on flesh. But as the other oozes have had little boosts, it wouldn't be wrong to bump these up a bit. I think that letting the silatics dissolve weapons that hit them is the bump they need. The Sunder also fits in well.

So I'm fairly happy with the speed of Digest Metal. But if you want to bump it up, just give it 3 rounds to kick in and then make it a continuous attack form. (The 3 rounds to eat, could then turn into 3 rounds per melted object.) A silatic that hasn't been damaged should therefore continue to eat at the 2e rate of one metal thing per 6 rounds, but could switch to disolving all metal in sight, when the silatic takes damage (and goes into its "beserk" mode). After a silatic kills all opponents (and comes out of "beserk" mode) it could then spend 3 rounds per melted objects eating. (This would not normally be important unless some characters have somehow managed to hide from a Platinum Silatic.)

This leaves us the Platinum's Acid to deal with. I think that we should go with freyar's "nerf" suggestion. IMO the Platinum's Acid attack should be a second digestive attack mode based on the Ochre Jelly Acid attack:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ooze.htm#ochreJelly said:
Acid (Ex)
An ochre jelly secretes a digestive acid that dissolves only flesh. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage.

This is a lot faster than its "metal eating" ability, but you could look at it as the Platinum melting the organic object that is in the way of its dinner. :D

The Platinum's Acid attack would probably be really useful for getting through things like wooden doors (and in the Spelljammer Campaign Setting, wooden decks or hulls of spelljammer ships). It would also help a silatic rip a leather scabbard apart so that it can get to the dagger or sword within or rip open a purse containing platinum coins. The acid would make the creature a great "cut-purse". Maybe we should give the Platinum a few skill ranks in picking pockets!

EDIT: I just noticed that all Silatics get "+1 or better weapons to hit" as a Special Defence. Do the converted silatics need something like Damage Reduction (against normal weapons)?
 
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Big Mac

Explorer
Shade said:
Do we want to stick with that, and just add the sickening effect? Or do we want to drop the damage to metal and limit it to organic matter, allowing digest metal to deal with metal?

The irritation thing, is hard to include with the Platinum Silatic not getting "called shots" to attack the eyes, noses and mouths of its opponents. And even if it did get called shots, it probably wouldn't understand what bits of its opponents to attack. So I'd suggest this would need to be converted into a dust like attack form.

If we go with silatics eating slowly (one object per 6 rounds), but switching to a beserk-like "disolve-now-eat-later" mode when damaged, this could possibly work as another attack form that is only used after a Platinum Silatic takes damage and goes beserk.

Given that this is semi-acidic, I'd suggest basing it on the Acid Fog spell (but pulling out the damage and the solidity):

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidFog.htm said:
Acid fog creates a billowing mass of misty vapors similar to that produced by a solid fog spell. In addition to slowing creatures down and obscuring sight, this spell’s vapors are highly acidic. Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it.

I'd argue that the cloud given off by the Platinum should be transparent (from the outside), but creatures on the inside should suffer visibility problems if the cloud makes them cry.

How does this sound:

Platinum Cloud (Ex)

When damaged a Platinum Silatic gives off a billowing mass of platinum dust similar in size to the fog produced by the fog cloud spell. This cloud is mildly acidic and causes irritation to eyes. If creatures with eyes get exposed to the cloud, the irritation of the platinum dust obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can’t use sight to locate the target).

In a confined space, or still air, the dust cloud remains effective for 10 rounds. A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the dust cloud in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the dust in 1 round.

The ability does not function underwater.


I'm not sure if you want to do anything about the dust being breathed in and causing people to cough or sneeze.

BTW: I based the 10 rounds time, on the 1 round per level duration of an Acid Fog spell (with the Platinum's HD put in as its caster level). You could tweak that time if you like, but I don't think the creature should get to use this ability at will. (Maybe it should even be a once-a-day thing that only gets used when the Platinum Silatic looses half of its hp.)
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ok, based on the above discussions: let's cut the platinum's acid attack to just a fixed amount of hp damage to organic material only.

Also: yes, all these should definitely have DR X/magi! I'm going to say DR 5 for iron and 10 for platinum, but that's open to discussion.
 

Big Mac

Explorer
freyar said:
Ok, based on the above discussions: let's cut the platinum's acid attack to just a fixed amount of hp damage to organic material only.

I am happy with 2d8 acid damage. We just need to agree on the actual text of the Acid ability. Should a Platinum Silatic's pseudopods be constantly coated with acid, or should they follow the same sort of pattern as the metal digesting fluids?

The original write up seems to suggest they are constantly coated with acid.

freyar said:
Also: yes, all these should definitely have DR X/magi! I'm going to say DR 5 for iron and 10 for platinum, but that's open to discussion.

These look like they are OK, but I'd like to be able to make this sort of guess in the future. (I probably would have guessed and used the HD of the three silatics - DR6 for the Iron, DR9 for the Gold and DR10 for the Platinum.) I'm assuming the Iron's DR would need to go between the other two silatic's DRs, but be closer to the Platinum. Would you go for DR9 or DR8?

I couldn't find any sort of guidelines for this in the Monster Conversion Notes thread. Is there some sort of rule for assigning DR?

EDIT: Typo alert - the following typo has slipped into the text of both silatics:

"Silatics may form a pair (or more, depending on type) of long, thin pseudopods that can strettch up to fifty feet."​

The word "strettch" should be "stretch". Looks like you have a sticky "t" key on your keyboard.

(I think I actually prefer stretch as a longer word - it's kind of poetic with extra letters in it. :D )
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I think the platinum pseudopods should have a constant acid, so it happens on any slam, yeah.

DR usually comes in increments of 5. I usually think of DR 5 for things up to about CR 5-6, DR 10 starting around there.
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
I prefer a status condition like sickness to a cloud of dust in the eyes, bu that's neither here nor there. Agree to DR 5 on the iron, DR 10 on the rest.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
demiurge1138 said:
I prefer a status condition like sickness to a cloud of dust in the eyes, bu that's neither here nor there. Agree to DR 5 on the iron, DR 10 on the rest.
Sickened is probably a reasonable way to handle the irritation, sure.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
OK, added DR 5/magic to the iron and 10/magic to the platinum.

I also removed the extra "t" in stretch. Good catch!

Have we decided to leave digest metal unchanged, and go with this for the acid?

Attack: Pseudopod +11 melee (1d6+7 plus 2d8 acid)
Full Attack: 2 pseudopods +11 melee (1d6+7 plus 2d8 acid)

Acid (Ex): The platinum silatic secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material quickly, but does not affect metal or stone. Any melee hit deals acid damage, and the victim must succeed on DC 21 Fortitude save or become sickened for x rounds. A wooden weapon that strikes a platinum silatic also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The platinum silatic's acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.
 


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