Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

[freyar]

Big Mac can correct me if I'm wrong, but he seemed to want to keep it slow. See post 112.

 

[Big Mac]

I think the platinum pseudopods should have a constant acid, so it happens on any slam, yeah.

Great. I'm onboard with that.

DR usually comes in increments of 5. I usually think of DR 5 for things up to about CR 5-6, DR 10 starting around there.

Thanks for the info. It is very useful. Hopefully this information can be put into the Monster Conversion Notes at some point.

I prefer a status condition like sickness to a cloud of dust in the eyes, bu that's neither here nor there. Agree to DR 5 on the iron, DR 10 on the rest.

That would seem to be a lot easier to administer. Seeing as we added it, I don't see any reason not to make this a sickening effect.

OK, added DR 5/magic to the iron and 10/magic to the platinum.

demiurge1138 voted for the Gold Silatic to get 10/magic too.

Have we decided to leave digest metal unchanged, and go with this for the acid?

Attack: Pseudopod +11 melee (1d6+7 plus 2d8 acid)
Full Attack: 2 pseudopods +11 melee (1d6+7 plus 2d8 acid)

Acid (Ex): The platinum silatic secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material quickly, but does not affect metal or stone. Any melee hit deals acid damage, and the victim must succeed on DC 21 Fortitude save or become sickened for x rounds. A wooden weapon that strikes a platinum silatic also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The platinum silatic's acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

This looks pretty good to me. It fits in nicely with Digest Metal. The nit-picking part of me wonders if we want the word "digestive" in the Acid description (on the grounds that the creature doesn't actually digest any organic material its acid disolves), but apart from that this looks perfect.

Big Mac can correct me if I'm wrong, but he seemed to want to keep it slow. See post 112.

Thanks freyar. I do want to "keep it slow" (the argument being that 2nd edition Silatics were slower than the 2nd edition Grey Ooze). The timescale of 3rd edition combat means that even though I want to keep the 3 round delay, the Silatic is still technically a lot faster than it used to be.

However, I do think that maybe the text of Digest Metal could be tidied up a bit.

Silatics take 3 rounds to start digesting metal, but there is no reason why a Silatic making two handed attacks wouldn't try to excret digestive fluid over all the metal items in the room during a battle...and then come back to suck up the all the liquid metal at the end of the fight.

And there is no reason why the digestive fluid, itself, couldn't work instantly. As far as I can see the delay in the original blurb is 3 rounds of salivating time followed by 3 rounds of slurping time - that leaves no duration for the metal disolving process. During the middle of a combat those delays could easily be ignored (to make this an on-demand ability). Salivation can be continuous once it kicks in and a silatic only needs to slurp (in front of players) while it is fighting one handed. Once the silatic starts fighting two handed it doesn't make sense for it to stop and slurp.

I think Digest Metal could be a bit more like a barbarian's rage, with a 3 round kick in time and a post-battle period where (instead of being tired) the silatic instinctively travels to all pools of disolved metal and spends 3 rounds per item sucking up its dinner.

I think a minor change like this preserves the original delay, but makes it more obvious to the DM that they can get these guys to eat more metal objects during a fight.

(In fact, I'm now thinking that the Platinum Silatic is looking pretty hard to defeat. I can't see a single PHB melee weapon that could survive a combat. I can see players needing to summon an earth elemental to punch this creature to death.)

 

[Shade]

Updated.

OK, a few last things before moving on to the gold...

CR 7?

Advancement: 11-20 HD (Medium); 21-30 HD (Large)?

Weight? (We listed the iron as 200 pounds)

Duration for sickened effect from acid?

 

[freyar]

Let's make sickened 1d6 rounds? The rest sounds good, including the 200 lb. Let's make them basically all of a type.

 

[Big Mac]

Let's make sickened 1d6 rounds? The rest sounds good, including the 200 lb. Let's make them basically all of a type.

I'm not sure if 200 lb is good as an average weight for all types of Silatic.

The blurb says that a dead silatic contains 1d10 lbs of metal per HD. So an Iron Silatic contains 6d10 lbs of iron, but a Platinum Silatic contains 10d10 lbs of platinum. They are both the same size (in the original stats), so it is possible that the Platinum is just better at eating and contains less "jelly-like substance" than the Iron Silatic. But if you go down the Advanced route and use a 30HD Platinum Silatic you get 30d10 lbs of Platinum and that could easily give a result of 21-30 lbs of platinum.

I'm guessing that the "average weight" doesn't apply to advanced silatics, but it might be worth double checking the numbers.

Apart from that, I think this sounds good, so far. We just need to work out the extra feat for the Platinum. How about Ability Focus on the DC of the Platinum's Acid Attack?

 

[Shade]

Updated with Ability Focus.

Does anyone know if the remain in contact damage (which is based on the Reflex save DC) increases when the DC is increased through a feat? Just curious, as I don't think I've seen that before.

Back to the weight...

Since they are all the same size, I guess the real question is which metal weighs more...iron or platinum? I'm assuming gold weighs the least, since it is a "soft" metal.

 

[Big Mac]

Updated with Ability Focus.

Does anyone know if the remain in contact damage (which is based on the Reflex save DC) increases when the DC is increased through a feat? Just curious, as I don't think I've seen that before.

Hmm. I didn't anything about changing the "remain in contact" DC on the Ooze over at the Hypertext d20 SRD (and that claims to be 3.5). I kind of assumed the "remain in contact" thing was the Ooze version of a full attack.

Here is the Black Pudding:

Acid (Ex)
The creature secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material and metal quickly, but does not affect stone. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage, and the opponent’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC 21 Reflex saves. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a black pudding also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The pudding’s acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

As you can see, it doesn't mentinon any change to the DC in the second paragraph. Are you getting this from another part of the combat rules?

The Elder Black Pudding is bumped up to DC 29 because of its additional HD and constitution score. No mention of changing the "remain in contact" rules are mentioned.

Note that the black pudding has the Constrict ability.

Here is the Grey Ooze:

Acid (Ex)
A gray ooze secretes a digestive acid that quickly dissolves organic material and metal, but not stone. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage. Armor or clothing dissolves and becomes useless immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 16 Reflex save. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a gray ooze also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 16 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The ooze’s acidic touch deals 16 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

Note that the Grey Ooze also has the Constrict ability.

The Gelatinous Cube doesn't mention "remain in contact", presumably because it only seems to absorb things and then damage them.

The Ochre Jelly also doesn't mention "remain in contact", but does have "Constrict".

Hmm. Constrict seems to imply that oozes that don't have Constrict do not do automatic slam and acid damage if they are grappling.

Maybe the silatics need constrict attacks. Does anyone know of an ooze that has "remain in contact" in its text, but can not constrict?

Back to the weight...

Since they are all the same size, I guess the real question is which metal weighs more...iron or platinum? I'm assuming gold weighs the least, since it is a "soft" metal.

Is this any help:

http://www.indygem.com/productinfo_preciousmetals.htm

Gold in its pure state:

<snip>

Has a specific gravity of 19.33. It is relatively heavy compared to most metals, such as silver (SG 10.7) or iron (SG 7.8). A notable exception is platinum (SG 21.4).

I'm not entirely sure how "specific gravity" relates to weight, but it there is another section further down implying that platinum is twice the weight of gold:

Platinum is Strong.

It is the heaviest of the precious metals, weighing almost twice as much as karat gold.

 

[Shade]

Here's what I was getting at:

Black pudding HD = 10
Black pudding Con modifier = +6
Reflex save DC for acid = 10 + 1/2 HD + Con modifier = 21
The pudding’s acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

Compare with what we have for platinum silatic:
HD = 10
Con modifier = +6
Ability Focus (acid) = +2
Reflex save DC for acid = 10 + 1/2 HD + Con modifier + Ability Focus = 23

So my question is thus: does the acidic touch deal 21 points of damage or 23? I'm guessing the latter, but just wanted to know if we had a precedent.


For the weight, since gold appears quite a bit heavier than iron, and platinum is double the weight of gold, how about:

Iron = 200 pounds
Gold = 300 pounds
Platinum = 600 pounds

 

[Big Mac]

Here's what I was getting at:

Black pudding HD = 10
Black pudding Con modifier = +6
Reflex save DC for acid = 10 + 1/2 HD + Con modifier = 21
The pudding’s acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

Compare with what we have for platinum silatic:
HD = 10
Con modifier = +6
Ability Focus (acid) = +2
Reflex save DC for acid = 10 + 1/2 HD + Con modifier + Ability Focus = 23

So my question is thus: does the acidic touch deal 21 points of damage or 23? I'm guessing the latter, but just wanted to know if we had a precedent.

Thanks for the clarification. I think the latter would be more fun, but the text of Ability Focus only mentions the DC (and not any other effects):

Ability Focus [General]
Choose one of the creature’s special attacks.

Prerequisite
Special attack.

Benefit
Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses.

Special
A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the creature takes the feat it applies to a different special attack.

I think they would actually say if this made other things change (as well as the DC).

Also the other ... Focus feats also seem to only affect the DC. Skill Focus adds +3 to one type of skill check. Spell Focus adds +1 to the DC of one school of spells. Weapon Focus adds +1 to the attack roll of one type of weapon and Greater Weapon Focus adds a second +1 to the same attack roll.

I might be wrong, but I see a theme of target number modification, but no other effect. Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus might give a clue if you compare them to Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization. They both add +2 to damage rolls implying that the Weapon Focus feats definately don't add to damage. I'd infer that other Focus feats don't add to damage either.

I might be wrong, but I'd be inclined to make it 21 damage and 23 DC unless I saw something that convinced me otherwise. (With several ...Focus feats, we might be able to find something in official errata or FAQs about one of them.)

(Incidentally, I think there should be an Ability Specialisation feat that stacks on Ability Focus and makes an ability that causes damage do an extra +2 damage.)

EDIT: I just did a search on wizards.com for "ability focus" and got 143 results.

So far I haven't got to anything that does the same damage as the DC score, but in the Quarrian, Choker Warlock Ability Focus (eldritch blast) doesn't seem to change Eldritch Blast from 1d6 to 1d6+2. And in the Celestial Wyvern, Corrupted Wyvern, Half-Troll/Half-Wyvern and Great Wyvern Ability Focus (poison) doesn't seem to change the constitution damage from 2d6 Con to 2d6+2 Con.

For the weight, since gold appears quite a bit heavier than iron, and platinum is double the weight of gold, how about:

Iron = 200 pounds
Gold = 300 pounds
Platinum = 600 pounds

I couldn't actually find anything that gave proper comparisons (everything I saw with gold and platinum used Troy Ounces instead of normal ounces), so I'll be happy to go with your guess. It feels like you have gone in the right direction. I'm not sure if it ties in totally with the treasure rules, but as long as a silatic is heavier that the "treasure" it drops, it doesn't really matter if one type of silatic has more or less "jelly" than another type.

(Do you have any idea on where to put silver?)

BTW: While I was researching that I saw that electrum contains both gold and silver, so think that both types of silatic should fight if they try to eat it at the same time. (Of course if they both got there at different times, one would extract its own metal and leave the metal wanted by the other one.)

 

[Shade]

Yeah, Ability Focus never increases usual damage. I was just confused since this is the only case I can think of where damage is actually based on a save DC. Let's just err on the side of caution and not increase the damage.

Updated.

I'm not sure on the weight of the silver right now, but I guess we can cross that bridge when we come to it.