Special Conversion Thread: Frogs n' Toads


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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Getting started on the attack:

Tongue +4 ranged (1d8)

Attach (Ex): If an archer frog hits with a tongue attack, the tongue buries itself in its target, held in place by numerous barbs on the tongue's surface. Each round thereafter that a creature remains impaled by a horn, it incurs a cumulative -1 circumstance penalty on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks. On the archer frog's turn in subsequent rounds, it attempts to drag its prey closer (see below).

A single attack with a slashing weapon against the tongue (made as an attempt to sunder a weapon) that deals at least 6 points of damage severs the tongue. Removing the barbed tongue (a full-round action) deals 3d4 points of damage to the victim, but if the character removing the tongue makes a successful Heal check (DC 20), this damage is reduced to 1d4 points.

Drag: After spearing a victim, an archer frog attempts to drag the victim closer on the archer frog's turn in each subsequent round. This activity resembles the bull rush maneuver, except that the archer frog drags its victim 10 feet closer +1 foot for each point by which its Strength check exceeds the victim's.

Tongue (Ex): The archer frog's barbed tongue serves as its only weapon. It acts as a ranged weapon with a range of 20ft (no range increment).

What do you think of that as a start? I removed the extra damage taken each round (from the bonespear), as it's not in the original text, but I left in the circumstance penalties, as they only make sense. Also, should we give the frog some extra bonus on the drag attempt, a la the bonespear?
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
That's a good start.

Yes, I think a racial bonus is a good idea.

An interesting aside, the other two frogs treat their tongues as melee touch attacks, while the toads treat them as ranged touch attacks...

Tongue (Ex): As a standard action, a killer frog may attack a foe up to 15 feet away with its tongue. If it hits, it deals no damage but immediately makes a grapple check (see Improved Grab, above). A killer frog is not considered to be grappling a foe if it uses its tongue to grapple. Once it grapples a foe, the frog can drag him into its square if the creature isn't too heavy (a standard killer frog can pull up to 230 pounds in this manner) whereupon it immediately makes a free bite attack against the foe, gaining a +2 circumstance bonus on its attack roll.

A killer frog's tongue has AC 13, and can be severed if it takes 5 points of slashing damage. The tongue regrows in one day.

Adhesive Tongue (Ex): A monstrous frog within 20 feet of its prey lashes out with its sticky tongue instead of leaping. To use this ability, a monstrous frog must hit an opponent up to one size category larger than itself with a tongue attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it successfully snares its prey with its tongue. The prey is automatically drawn into the frog's mouth in the following round. If the tongue is struck (AC 15) for any amount of damage, the frog releases the victim and does not attack that PC again.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Shade said:
An interesting aside, the other two frogs treat their tongues as melee touch attacks, while the toads treat them as ranged touch attacks...

How strange. Do you want to make this a melee touch attack w/20ft reach, then?

Tongue (Ex): As a standard action, a killer frog may attack a foe up to 15 feet away with its tongue. If it hits, it deals no damage but immediately makes a grapple check (see Improved Grab, above). A killer frog is not considered to be grappling a foe if it uses its tongue to grapple. Once it grapples a foe, the frog can drag him into its square if the creature isn't too heavy (a standard killer frog can pull up to 230 pounds in this manner) whereupon it immediately makes a free bite attack against the foe, gaining a +2 circumstance bonus on its attack roll.

A killer frog's tongue has AC 13, and can be severed if it takes 5 points of slashing damage. The tongue regrows in one day.

Adhesive Tongue (Ex): A monstrous frog within 20 feet of its prey lashes out with its sticky tongue instead of leaping. To use this ability, a monstrous frog must hit an opponent up to one size category larger than itself with a tongue attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it successfully snares its prey with its tongue. The prey is automatically drawn into the frog's mouth in the following round. If the tongue is struck (AC 15) for any amount of damage, the frog releases the victim and does not attack that PC again.

Hmmm, rather than the bull rush check as the bonespear, maybe the archer frog should use Improved Grab and then a grapple check. Should it automatically draw the victim into its mouth the next round, or go for 10ft a round?
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Here's a much more recent creature with a "sticky tongue" attack, the subterranean lizard from Drow of the Underdark:

Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, a subterranean lizard must hit an opponent of up to one size larger with a tongue attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold, drags the target to an adjacent space, and automatically deals bite damage.

Tongue (Ex) As a full-round action, a subterranean lizard can extend its long, sticky tongue to make a melee touch attack.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
The thing that I find different about the archer frog is that the grapple/attachment should be pretty automatic once the attack hits. I guess I'm leaning more toward something like the bonespear for that reason.

On the subterranean lizard, is this a 3.5 update of the one from Forge of Fury?
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ok, let's go with the bonespear-like version. I guess I don't have a big preference whether the tongue attack is melee touch or ranged touch with no range increment. Or should it be a non-touch attack -- the barbs have to penetrate the armor? I guess we're getting into picky details now...
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Combat: In their natural surroundings, archer frogs' coloration gives them a natural camouflage, imposing a -3 penalty to opponents' surprise rolls.

Racial bonus on Hide checks? Improved Initiative?

Once the prey is within the mouth, the archer frog's acidic saliva begins the process of digestion, causing an addition 1d4 hp damage each round, until the prey has been totally liquefied and swallowed. Non-organic materials (such as armor, weapons, and jewelry) are not digested; these items are spit out by the archer frog after dissolving its meal.

?

Once an archer frog has "speared" a victim on its tongue, it is virtually defenseless until its current victim is dissolved. For this reason, an archer frog prefers to target solo prey; parties of two or more capable of fighting back are seldom attacked.

We might need to find one of those creatures with a "transfers victims to its mouth" ability. None come to mind at the moment, though.

The frogs have large, expandable throat-sacs which hold prey in much the same manner as a pelican's beak. This enables a full-grown archer frog to digest something as large as an elf or human in its mouth.

....up to Medium size.
 

Mortis

First Post
Shade said:
Racial bonus on Hide checks? Improved Initiative?
Not sure about Improved Initiative as the bonus should only be for the first round. We could give it a bonus to Hide so that it has a better chance of surprising it's opponent and thus go in the surprise round before normal Initiative begins.

It's rather like a 'premature' swallow whole effect - just in the mouth rather than the stomach.

Regards
Mortis
 

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