Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[freyar]

The sabrelord hybrid form full attack does have some errors. The battleaxe plus claw combo is missing the attack bonus! For the battleaxe, I think it should be +25/+20/+15/+10, and the claw should be +25.

Also, I'm a bit confused about the primary/secondary attack business (maybe I'm just confused by lycanthropes)! The hybrid has primary claws and secondary bite, but the animal form reverses the order if that's what the base animal does? A bit strange, though I guess you could come up with reasons for it.

 

[Shade]

It's a bit odd, but the hybrid form always has 2 claws and a bite, regardless of whether the original creature has 'em!

Attacks: Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. A lycanthrope in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons.These weapons deal damage based on the hybrid form’s size. A hybrid may attack with a weapon and a bite, or may attack with its natural weapons. The bite attack of a hybrid is a secondary attack.

Thus, a wereserpent would have claws despite its animal form lacking arms.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, that's a funny issue with lycanthropes. Do any yuan-ti have claws? I guess I could go look that up if I remember tonight.

 

[Shade]

Yep, the Anathema does.

 

[freyar]

Ok, all done?

 

[Cleon]

Ok, all done?

Let me check it, this may take some time...

...bloody high level 3E characters...

Firstly, if the Sabrelord has its weapons scale with its Alternative Form, the basic Weresmilodon should as well.

Furthermore, the Sabrelord Hybrid Form's full attack line is missing the battleaxe's attack modifier from its battleaxe/claw/bite array and some of its claw attack mods are wrong.

Changes:

Weresmilodon, Hybrid Form
Attack: Bite +14 melee (2d6+8/x3); or claw +14 melee (1d6+8); or greataxe +14 melee (3d6+12)
Full Attack: Greataxe +14/+9 melee (3d6+12) and bite +12 melee (2d6+4/x3); or 2 claws +14 melee (1d6+8) and bite +12 melee (2d6+4/x3)

Sabrelord, Hybrid Form
Full Attack: Battleaxe +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+10) and shortsword +25/+20/+15 melee (1d8+5/19-20) and bite +25 melee (2d6+5/x3); or battleaxe +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+10) and claw +25 melee (1d6+5) and bite +25 melee (2d6+5/x3); or 2 claws +27 melee (1d6+10) and bite +25 melee (2d6+5/x3)

COMBAT (changes both weresmilodon and sabrelord)
Weresmilodon are canny fighters who prefer to wait for opponents to come to them before attacking, then leap or charge from ambush. Weresmilodon typically fight in hybrid form. They like to use their claws and fangs when charging opponents, since this allows them to use their pounce special attack, but usually rely on artificial weapons in regular melee.
​

Secondly, the Weresmilodon's skill modifiers are all wrong and it's hybrid form isn't wearing armour so shouldn't have the "((-1 armor check penalty included)" bit. If you'd consulted my Working Draft you'd have seen they should be:

Human Form: Balance +3^, Climb +2^, Handle Animal +1*, Hide +6*^, Intimidate +1*, Jump +4^, Listen +7, Move Silently +6*^, Spot +7
^includes -1 armor check penalty
Animal/Hybrid: Balance +6, Climb +10, Handle Animal +1*, Hide +5*, Intimidate +1*, Jump +16, Listen +7, Move Silently +9, Spot +7​

Oh, and the Sabrelord should have a Ride skill modifier listed in its animal form, silly as that might seem. Plus I'd make the Sabrelord's studded leather masterwork to explain its lack of armour check penalty.

Thirdly, the Sabrelord should have a Will save of +11 (+3 ranger 12, +6 Smilodon, +2 Iron Will) in all its forms, not +9 (or +8!)

I've incorporated all these changes in my Working Draft, so you can just copy-and-paste it from there. I'd like to double-check the Sabrelord's skills, though.


Ranks
Smilodon: Balance 0, Hide 3, Jump 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 3, Spot 5
Ranger: Handle Animal 9, Hide 15, Intimidate 12, Listen 12, Move Silently 15, Ride 0, Spot 12, Survival 15
Sabrelord Total: Balance 0, Handle Animal 9, Hide 18, Intimidate 12, Jump 2, Listen 17, Move Silently 18, Spot 17, Survival 15

Elf Form: Balance +7, Handle Animal +9, Hide +25*, Intimidate +12, Jump +5, Listen +19, Move Silently +25, Ride +5, Spot +19, Survival +15
Animal/Hybrid: Balance +9, Handle Animal +9, Hide +23*, Intimidate +12, Jump +16 (animal) +12 (hybrid), Listen +19, Move Silently +27, Ride +7, Spot +19, Survival +15

 

[Cleon]

Hold on, I just thought of something.

Does the standard lycanthrope get the bonus skill points of a human?

That would give it an additional 13 skill points.

If it does, then rather than recalculating all the skills I propose swapping the Int and Wis so the SPs remain the same, Then we just have to increase Handle Animal and Intimidate to +2 each.

That would make it:

Human Form: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10
Animal/Hybrid: Str 27, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10

Human Form: Balance +3, Climb +2, Handle Animal +2, Hide +6*, Intimidate +2, Jump +4, Listen +7, Move Silently +6, Spot +7 (includes -1 armor check penalty)
Animal Form: Balance +6, Climb +10, Handle Animal +2, Hide +5*, Intimidate +2, Jump +16, Listen +7, Move Silently +9, Spot +7
Hybrid Form: Balance +6, Climb +10, Handle Animal +2, Hide +5*, Intimidate +2, Jump +12, Listen +7, Move Silently +9, Spot +7

The weresmilodon presented here is a 1st-level human warrior and natural lycanthrope, using the following base ability scores: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 10.

 

[Cleon]

Ok, all done?

Oh, and it's got "flavor text" in the first paragraph - where's the flavour!

 

[Shade]

Secondly, the Weresmilodon's skill modifiers are all wrong and it's hybrid form isn't wearing armour so shouldn't have the "((-1 armor check penalty included)" bit. If you'd consulted my Working Draft you'd have seen they should be:

Human Form: Balance +3^, Climb +2^, Handle Animal +1*, Hide +6*^, Intimidate +1*, Jump +4^, Listen +7, Move Silently +6*^, Spot +7
^includes -1 armor check penalty
Animal/Hybrid: Balance +6, Climb +10, Handle Animal +1*, Hide +5*, Intimidate +1*, Jump +16, Listen +7, Move Silently +9, Spot +7​

I did consult your working draft, but it was missing the racial skill bonuses for Balance, etc., so I refigured them. Also, I couldn't deal with the carats.

Oh, and the Sabrelord should have a Ride skill modifier listed in its animal form, silly as that might seem.

I suppose so. That was an intentional omission on my part on the grounds of silliness.

Plus I'd make the Sabrelord's studded leather masterwork to explain its lack of armour check penalty.

Good call!

Thirdly, the Sabrelord should have a Will save of +11 (+3 ranger 12, +6 Smilodon, +2 Iron Will) in all its forms, not +9 (or +8!)

Fixed.

Hold on, I just thought of something.

Does the standard lycanthrope get the bonus skill points of a human?

It should. Why didn't we make it a wood elf as well????

That would give it an additional 13 skill points.

If it does, then rather than recalculating all the skills I propose swapping the Int and Wis so the SPs remain the same, Then we just have to increase Handle Animal and Intimidate to +2 each.

Good solution.

Oh, and it's got "flavor text" in the first paragraph - where's the flavour!

Still fermenting. We'll release no flavor text before its time.

Updated.

 

[freyar]

Want just to make it an elf?

Or is it all set?