Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[freyar]

In that example, wouldn't the weredragon's base dragon have 16HD since it's a juvenile? Maybe you want to say
"The spell resistance is the same as a dragon of the same type as the base dragon but with racial hit dice matching the weredragon's total hit dice."
Which would be ok by me.

 

[Cleon]

In that example, wouldn't the weredragon's base dragon have 16HD since it's a juvenile?

Er… yes?

I said "with 16 dragon hit dice" in the example.

Spell Resistance (Ex): As weredragons age, they become more resistant to spells and spell-like abilities. The spell resistance is the same as a dragon whose type and racial hit dice matches the weredragon's base dragon. For example, a juvenile red fire giant weredragon with 16 dragon hit dice and 15 giant hit dice will have spell resistance 26, the same as a 31 hit dice very old red dragon.

Maybe you want to say
"The spell resistance is the same as a dragon of the same type as the base dragon but with racial hit dice matching the weredragon's total hit dice."
Which would be ok by me.

No, I meant to use the sum of racial Hit Dice from the base dragon and base creature, same as we did with the Breath Weapon special attack.

I'd be OK using total hit dice instead, since there's a precedent in Templates that use a "Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + ## (maximum ##)." formula, such as the Half-Fiend.

 

[freyar]

No, I meant to use the sum of racial Hit Dice from the base dragon and base creature, same as we did with the Breath Weapon special attack.

Hmmm, I think I don't like the wording in the Breath Weapon either since I think it's the same. From the introductory text, "the base dragon must belong to an age category with a Level Adjustment." So "type and racial hit dice matches the weredragon's base dragon" means use the juvenile red dragon's 16 racial HD. Maybe what we want is
"The spell resistance/breath weapon is the same as the base dragon advanced to the weredragon's total racial HD."
Or total HD as suggested above.

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm, I think I don't like the wording in the Breath Weapon either since I think it's the same. From the introductory text, "the base dragon must belong to an age category with a Level Adjustment." So "type and racial hit dice matches the weredragon's base dragon" means use the juvenile red dragon's 16 racial HD. Maybe what we want is
"The spell resistance/breath weapon is the same as the base dragon advanced to the weredragon's total racial HD."
Or total HD as suggested above.

So like:

Breath Weapon (Su): A weredragon can use its breath weapon in both hybrid and dragon form. The breath weapon is the same as the base dragon advanced to the weredragon's total racial hit dice. For example, a wyrmling bronze ogre weredragon with 6 dragon hit dice and 4 giant hit dice will have a breath weapon as powerful as a 10 hit dice very young bronze dragon. The area of the breath weapon always matches the biggest size the weredragon can assume in dragon form.

Spell Resistance (Ex): As weredragons age, they become more resistant to spells and spell-like abilities. The spell resistance is the same as the base dragon advanced to the weredragon's total racial hit dice. For example, a juvenile red fire giant weredragon with 16 dragon hit dice and 15 giant hit dice will have spell resistance 26, the same as a 31 hit dice very old red dragon.
​

That works for me.

 

[freyar]

Yes, that's it. I think that does what we want.

I think we also need some similar kind of wording for Crush, Frightful Presence, and Tail Sweep. Something like
Crush (Ex): A weredragon can use the crush special attack in hybrid or dragon form if the base dragon has the crush special attack when advanced to the same size category.
Does that work for you?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, that's it. I think that does what we want.

I think we also need some similar kind of wording for Crush, Frightful Presence, and Tail Sweep. Something like
Crush (Ex): A weredragon can use the crush special attack in hybrid or dragon form if the base dragon has the crush special attack when advanced to the same size category.
Does that work for you?

Rather than "when advanced to the same size category" it needs its current size to be Huge or larger, which is already in the writeup.

Also, it should be "dragon type" not "base dragon" as that'd means only weredragons whose dragon age category was Huge or larger could Crush and we want Wyrmling Giant dragons to be able to make that attack.

So wouldn't the following do:

Crush (Ex): A weredragon can make crush attacks in hybrid or dragon form if its dragon type has the crush special attack.

This special attack allows a flying or jumping weredragon in a dragon form or hybrid form of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. …

Tail Sweep (Ex): If a weredragon's dragon type possesses the tail sweep attack, the weredragon can make tail sweeps when in a dragon form or hybrid form that meets the special attack's size restrictions.
​

As for the Frightful Presence, I'm game for making that based on racial hit dice or total hit dice, since a Weredragon with lots of levels ought to be scarier.

Frightful Presence (Su): A weredragon whose [total racial hit dice/total hit dice?] equal a young adult or older dragon of its dragon type can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The frightful presence is the same as a true dragon advanced to the weredragon's [total racial hit dice/total hit dice?]. For example, a #### weredragon with # dragon hit dice and # [giant hit dice/class hit dice?] will have a breath weapon as powerful as a ## hit dice [age category] ### dragon.
​

For the example I'd use either a giant weredragon or a weredragon with a lot of class levels in order to hit the Young Adult hit dice threshold.

 

[freyar]

I can go with that for Crush, Tail Sweep, etc. And I'd say let's go with total HD for frightful presence in all cases.

 

[freyar]

Amongst the variety of colors in the working draft, I have lost track what we have left to do. What's next with these?

 

[Cleon]

I can go with that for Crush, Tail Sweep, etc. And I'd say let's go with total HD for frightful presence in all cases.

Updated the Weredragon (True Drakanthrope) Working Draft.

I did wonder about changing the Breath Weapon from "racial hit dice" to "total hit dice" so a weredragon with a lot of class levels has decent breath damage.

Currently, a 20th level fighter whose a human wyrmling red weredragon has a 2d10 breath weapon from its 7 dragon hit dice. If it was total hit dice, it'd have the 14d10 damage of a 27 HD mature adult red dragon.

What do you think?

Amongst the variety of colors in the working draft, I have lost track what we have left to do. What's next with these?

The magenta portions are the ones we're working on, so we've got as far as Special Qualities.

That basically boils down to what Spell Resistance we give it. The current draft uses total racial hit dice.

 

[freyar]

Total HD for the breath weapon probably works out better for the CR.

Total racial HD for SR seems ok. The magenta text for Saves seems good too.