Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[Cleon]

OK, sure. I wondered if that might be it.

Updating the Weredragon (True Drakanthrope) Working Draft.

What part do you want to look at next?

I'd just go through it in order, so Special Attacks next.

 

[freyar]

Well, we've changed the language about when it gets various SAs (the current " Unless otherwise noted, weredragons only gain the special attacks of the base dragon's wyrmling age category regardless of the base dragon's size and Hit Dice" doesn't apply to the Ex special attacks unless we want to otherwise note them). We should use language like we did for the Attacks, noting that a dragon or hybrid form of given size gets the attacks "if the dragon type of the base dragon has those attacks at any age category." Agreed?

 

[Cleon]

Well, we've changed the language about when it gets various SAs (the current " Unless otherwise noted, weredragons only gain the special attacks of the base dragon's wyrmling age category regardless of the base dragon's size and Hit Dice" doesn't apply to the Ex special attacks unless we want to otherwise note them). We should use language like we did for the Attacks, noting that a dragon or hybrid form of given size gets the attacks "if the dragon type of the base dragon has those attacks at any age category." Agreed?

Yes, this is going to need some serious thought.

I'm thinking some of the Special Abilities will need tweaking, particularly the Breath Weapon.

The original stats has "They can also use the dragon’s breath weapon once each day."

Which is a bit problematic since it doesn't give a size or damage, which are both age-variable for 2E dragons.

Also, we were using the Half Dragon as a source of inspiration and that has a 6d8 damage breath weapon, which is far stronger than any Wrymling SRD dragon. Wyrmlings range from 2d4 to 2d10 breath weapon damage.

That raises one concern I had. Shouldn't a strong weredragon have a decent breath weapon even if the base dragon's only a Wyrmling.

Say you have a Storm Giant base creature (19d8) and a Black Dragon Wyrmling base dragon (4d12) which adds up to 23 Hit Dice. Having a Wyrmling Black Dragon's 2d4 acid breath is too tiddly. It's barely worth spit.

How about having the Weredragon breath weapon match that of the true dragon with similar Hit Dice.

So for the aforementioned Storm Giant Black Weredragon, its 23 Hit Dice falls within the 22-24 HD of a Mature Black Dragon which has a 14d4 breath weapon, for 35 average damage.

If it was a Gold Weredragon, the same 23 Hit Dice would match an Adult Gold Dragon (23-25 HD) which has a 12d10 breath weapon (66 average damage).

 

[freyar]

I can go for that. It's usually not too hard to convince me to make a monster tougher.

 

[Cleon]

I can go for that. It's usually not too hard to convince me to make a monster tougher.

How's this:

Special Attacks: A weredragon retains the special attacks of the base creature or base dragon, depending on which form it is using, and also gains the special attacks described below.

In hybrid form a weredragon retains the special attacks of the base creature and gains the special attacks described below. If the base dragon has a special attack tied to a natural weapon, such as a rust dragon's rusting bite, it retains that special attack in hybrid form.

Breath Weapon (Su): A weredragon can use its breath weapon in both hybrid and dragon form. The breath weapon is the same as a dragon whose type and racial hit dice matches the weredragon's base dragon. For example, a wyrmling bronze ogre weredragon with 6 dragon hit dice and 4 giant hit dice will have a breath weapon as powerful as a 10 hit dice very young bronze dragon. The area of the breath weapon always matches the biggest size the weredragon can assume in dragon form.
​

 

[freyar]

Yes, I think that works.

Crush, Frightful Presence, and Tail Sweep probably should be restricted to when the weredragon is actually the correct size or larger. Something like
Crush (Ex): A weredragon can use the crush attack when in dragon or hybrid form when that form is Huge or larger and the base dragon has the Crush attack at Huge size or larger.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, I think that works.

Updating the Weredragon (True Drakanthrope) Working Draft.

Crush, Frightful Presence, and Tail Sweep probably should be restricted to when the weredragon is actually the correct size or larger. Something like
Crush (Ex): A weredragon can use the crush attack when in dragon or hybrid form when that form is Huge or larger and the base dragon has the Crush attack at Huge size or larger.

How's this:

Crush (Ex): If a weredragon's dragon type possesses the crush attack, the weredragon can make crush attacks when in a dragon form or hybrid form that meets the special attack's size restrictions.

This special attack allows a flying or jumping weredragon in a dragon form or hybrid form of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the weredragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the weredragon's body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the weredragon's breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the weredragon moves off them. If the weredragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don't escape.

A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the weredragon's Strength bonus (round down).

Frightful Presence (Su): A weredragon whose base dragon possesses the frightful presence special attack can use it when in hybrid form.

Spells and Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): A weredragon can use all the base creature and base dragon's spells and spell-like abilities in any of its alternate forms.

Tail Sweep (Ex): If a weredragon's dragon type possesses the tail sweep attack, the weredragon can make tail sweeps when in a dragon form or hybrid form that meets the special attack's size restrictions.

This special attack allows a weredragon in a dragon form or hybrid form of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet in dragon form or 20 feet in hybrid form (40 feet or 30 feet for a Colossal weredragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the weredragon's space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the weredragon. A tail sweep automatically deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the weredragon's Strength bonus (round down) if the weredragon is in dragon form or half its Strength bonus if it is in hybrid form. Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the weredragon's breath weapon).
​

I expanded some of them a bit.

 

[Cleon]

Remembered there was something I wanted to add to the Damage section. I think the hybrid form's tail slap should not use 1½ Strength bonus like a true dragon's tail slap but just ½ Strength bonus like a regular secondary attack.

It's a simple matter of adding "The hybrid form's tail slap deals the indicated damage plus ½ the weredragon's Strength bonus (round down)."