Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[Cleon]

I think there is the same issue with the dragon form since it still says "same as base creature or base dragon, depending on which form the weredragon is using."

What if we say

A weredragon in hybrid or dragon form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons. A Large or larger hybrid or dragon form gains two wings attack, a Huge or larger hybrid or dragon form gains a tail slap attack, and a Gargantuan or larger hybrid or dragon form gains a tail sweep attack, provided the base dragon has those attacks when advanced to the corresponding size.​

It does sound a bit complicated, but I think it says what you want.

No, that's worse.

In dragon form it just has the natural attacks of dragon of its size and type, which may be different to its hybrid form.

A standard True Dragon has bite and claw at all sizes and gains wing attacks at Medium, a tail slap at Large, a crush at Huge and a tail sweep at Gargantuan.

You didn't want the hybrid form to have Crush attacks earlier, and I would like the wings and later attacks to kick in at a larger size because I didn't want the Medium size to have wing attacks,.

Hence the earlier proposal that the Weredragon has bite and claw at all sizes and gains wing attacks at Large, a tail slap at Huge, and a tail sweep at Gargantuan.

 

[freyar]

Wait, I think that's the size I have for each attack. I think we're talking past each other.

Let's go back to what you had last:

A weredragon in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons. A Large or larger hybrid form gains two wings attack, a Huge or larger hybrid form gains a tail slap attack, and a Gargantuan or larger hybrid form gains a tail sweep attack, provided it has those attacks in dragon form.​

​

I'm worried about the last bit "provided it has those attacks in dragon form" because the dragon form as proposed (post 1437) says

In dragon form, it has the same attacks as a true dragon of the weredragon's dragon variety and size category (see Size & Type). If its dragon form is larger than the base dragon it can gain additional natural attacks according to its size, such as the tail slap attack of a Large dragon.​

But the size of the dragon form isn't determined, so I think we need to specify. (I think I was also looking at the text in the working draft earlier, which refers to the attacks of the base dragon also.)

 

[Cleon]

Wait, I think that's the size I have for each attack. I think we're talking past each other.

Let's go back to what you had last:

I'm worried about the last bit "provided it has those attacks in dragon form" because the dragon form as proposed (post 1437) says

But the size of the dragon form isn't determined, so I think we need to specify. (I think I was also looking at the text in the working draft earlier, which refers to the attacks of the base dragon also.)

Eh? The size of the dragon form is determined by the Size and Type section.

As per the Weredragon (True Drakanthrope) Working Draft.

In dragon form, a weredragon can be the size of the base creature, the base dragon, or any size between the two, but defaults to whichever size is bigger.

Examples: a human wyrmling brass weredragon's dragon form is normally Medium size (the size of a human, its base creature) but can shrink to Tiny size (the size of a wyrmling brass dragon, its base dragon) or become Small (the size between Tiny and Medium). A gnome young gold weredragon's dragon form is normally Large (the size of a young gold dragon) but can shrink to Small (the size of a gnome) or become Medium (its intermediary size).

Weredragons can adopt a hybrid shape that combines features of the base creature and the base dragon. A weredragon's hybrid form can assume the same sizes as its dragon form.

I'm getting a bit confused as to what's the issue here.

Could you propose an alternative wording that'd work for you?

My plan was to include sample weredragons that would have several sizes in dragon and hybrid forms, so I expect the examples should make it clear how the size categories work.

 

[freyar]

Size and Type says that "In dragon form, a weredragon can be the size of the base creature, the base dragon, or any size between the two, but defaults to whichever size is bigger." So the weredragon can take different sizes as it likes each time it changes to dragon form. I would just like to tie the attacks either to the size that the weredragon is assuming in hybrid or dragon form or else to a base dragon size or something specific.

 

[Cleon]

Size and Type says that "In dragon form, a weredragon can be the size of the base creature, the base dragon, or any size between the two, but defaults to whichever size is bigger." So the weredragon can take different sizes as it likes each time it changes to dragon form. I would just like to tie the attacks either to the size that the weredragon is assuming in hybrid or dragon form or else to a base dragon size or something specific.

So you want more emphasis on it being tied to the weredragon's assumed size rather than the base dragon's size?

How's this:

Attacks: In humanoid or giant form the weredragon the same attacks as the base creature. In dragon form, it has the same attacks as a true dragon of the weredragon's dragon variety and current size. If it assumes a dragon form larger than the base dragon (see Size & Type), the weredragon may gain additional natural attacks according to its size, such as the tail slap attack gained by a Large dragon.

A weredragon in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons. A Large or larger hybrid form gains two wings attack, a Huge or larger hybrid form gains a tail slap attack, and a Gargantuan or larger hybrid form gains a tail sweep attack, if the base dragon has those attacks.

Damage: Same as base creature in humanoid of giant form. As a dragon, it does damage according to its dragon variety and assumed size (as per the true dragon's Dragon Space/Reach, Attacks, and Damage table). In hybrid form, the claw attacks and tail sweep attack have the damage of a dragon of the same size, while the bite, wing and tail slap attacks have the damage of a dragon one size category smaller.​

 

[Cleon]

Size and Type says that "In dragon form, a weredragon can be the size of the base creature, the base dragon, or any size between the two, but defaults to whichever size is bigger." So the weredragon can take different sizes as it likes each time it changes to dragon form. I would just like to tie the attacks either to the size that the weredragon is assuming in hybrid or dragon form or else to a base dragon size or something specific.

So you want more emphasis on it being tied to the weredragon's assumed size rather than the base dragon's size?

How's this:

Attacks: In humanoid or giant form the weredragon the same attacks as the base creature. In dragon form, it has the same attacks as a true dragon of the weredragon's dragon variety and current size. If it assumes a dragon form larger than the base dragon (see Size & Type), the weredragon may gain additional natural attacks according to its size, such as the tail slap attack gained by a Large dragon.

A weredragon in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons. A Large or larger hybrid form gains two wings attack, a Huge or larger hybrid form gains a tail slap attack, and a Gargantuan or larger hybrid form gains a tail sweep attack, if the base dragon has those attacks.

Damage: Same as base creature in humanoid of giant form. As a dragon, it does damage according to its dragon variety and assumed size (as per the true dragon's Dragon Space/Reach, Attacks, and Damage table). In hybrid form, the claw attacks and tail sweep attack have the damage of a dragon of the same size, while the bite, wing and tail slap attacks have the damage of a dragon one size category smaller.​

 

[Cleon]

The forum or my PC went a bit glitchy and double-posted the previous post. I don't think I can delete one of them, so I'll add a note.