Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[freyar]

Sounds like two votes for corporeal (unknown type) and two for incorporeal outsider. Or am I perhaps misinterpreting Cleon and demiurge?

 

[Cleon]

Cleon might have the right idea, but I don't like making the spirit unkillable. Make them a corporeal outsider that's killable by violence. Give them an SQ that dismissal or dispel evil kills them, but they have rejuvenation that's beaten by a Spellcraft/Know: religion/ Caster Level check against a DC based on the HD?

Sounds good, I wasn't proposing the spirit was indestructible.

Sounds like two votes for corporeal (unknown type) and two for incorporeal outsider. Or am I perhaps misinterpreting Cleon and demiurge?

Put me down for a vote for corporeal.

I agree it leaves us with a problem with the type. Is an Outsider possessing a corpse an Undead? Frankly, if a Devourer or a Bodak is an Undead, we don't really have much justification not making these guys Undead as well.

Should they have the Extraplanar or Evil subtypes?

 

[demiurge1138]

I think, at this point, we're looping back around to undead, based on the devourer's precedent. Bodaks, at least, used to be something (mortals killed by the touch of ultimate evil, or by another bodak).

 

[freyar]

The difference for me is that I don't usually think of the animating power of undead as being demons. Devourer's, for example, are animated by a need to find their lost souls (and negative energy, of course), per the Dragon ecology. These things, well, I'm not so sure. I think we're still split on this. But I do insist on removing the demon references if we go the undead route.

 

[Shade]

Let's work 'em up as undead and see how they look. We can always change if we're not satisfied with the results.

Retain the scores we came up with earlier (Str -, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 19), and add an appropriate Str score? Vampire spawn have Str 16.

 

[freyar]

Picking a number out of a hat, let's say Str 20.

 

[Cleon]

The difference for me is that I don't usually think of the animating power of undead as being demons. Devourer's, for example, are animated by a need to find their lost souls (and negative energy, of course), per the Dragon ecology. These things, well, I'm not so sure. I think we're still split on this. But I do insist on removing the demon references if we go the undead route.

Well I'm used to think of D&D undead as being created or occupied by demonic entities, since AD&D strongly implied that's how many Chaotic Evil undead came about.

Picking a number out of a hat, let's say Str 20.

That suits me. It should certainly be higher than a Spawn's.

That would give us Str 20, Dex 20, Con -, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 19.

I'm thinking the Dex and Cha may be a tad high, we could knock off a couple of points from each to make it Str 20, Dex 18, Con -, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 17.

 

[freyar]

Well I'm used to think of D&D undead as being created or occupied by demonic entities, since AD&D strongly implied that's how many Chaotic Evil undead came about.

I think I showed up too late, as I think about them in terms of Negative Energy. Maybe outsiders from the negative energy plane?

That suits me. It should certainly be higher than a Spawn's.

That would give us Str 20, Dex 20, Con -, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 19.

I'm thinking the Dex and Cha may be a tad high, we could knock off a couple of points from each to make it Str 20, Dex 18, Con -, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 17.

Those scores appeal.

 

[demiurge1138]

Those stats work for the lessers. We'll want to boost Dex and Cha back up for the greaters.

 

[Cleon]

Those stats work for the lessers. We'll want to boost Dex and Cha back up for the greaters.

Well obviously.

I was assuming we'd tweak most, if not all, of the greater vrylokalas's ability scores up.