Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[demiurge1138]

Agreed to grapple-only barbed defense and a Cha of 10-12.

 

[Cleon]

Added to Homebrews.

A few issues:

If we retain the skeleton's Cha score, and make the burning blood Cha-based, it will suffer a -5 penalty. Should we raise the Cha to 10, or make the ability Dex-based?

My instinctive response was to raise the Charisma. Dexterity seems wrong for a supernatural effect that infects an opponent's blood. We could make it Strength-based I suppose, just to be different.

Should the spikes offer something akin to barbed defense, but only vs. grapples since they are short?

If we give them the equivalent or armour-spikes like I suggested, isn't that already included? Armour spikes "allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack."

Something like:

Spikes (Ex): A spike skeleton is covered in bony protrusions that allow the skeleton to make grapple and melee attacks as if it is wearing armour spikes. A hit with a spike attack triggers the spike skeleton's bonespray special attack.
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I'd like to retain the original's name of "bonespray" for the shattering spike burst.

That's fine by me, I like the name "bonespray" too. All that leaves is the details.

I'm presuming we'll keep this a 5-foot radius like the original, triggered whenever the skeleton is struck or strikes an opponent, but we're left with a couple of questions:

How much damage does it do? 1-3 spikes each doing 1-3 damage averages 6 damage, so I'm thinking 1d10 or so.

Are we allowing a reflex save to reduce damage? (Dexterity or Strength-based?)

Do we want the skeleton to take damage when it makes a bonespray attack, like it does in the original version?

I'm thinking something like:

Bonespray (Ex): A spike skeleton emits a spray of razor-sharp bone shards whenever ithits an opponent with a spike attack. It also emits a bonespray whenever the skeleton is struck for hit points of damage. Each bonespray does X[1d10?] piercing damage to all creatures within a 5 foot burst centered on the skeleton (except for other spike skeletons). A successful DC Y Reflex save halves this damage. Every time a spike skeleton emits a bonespray attack it takes Z hit points of damage. The save DC is [Strength/Dexterity]-based.
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The red bits are where I think it needs work.

I thought it a good idea to make other spike skeleton's immune to bonespray, otherwise they'd be constantly setting each other off. While this could do a lot of damage, it could also be a bugger to keep track of in play.

 

[Shade]

That's an elegant solution to the grappling issue.

For the bonespray, since the original did potentially 3d3 damage, how about boosting to 3d4? That makes the save for half a bit more interesting on the low end.

We have enough in favor of a Cha-boost that we can make both abilities Cha-based.

I'm not sure if they need to be immune, since the DR 5/bludgeoning will eat much of the damage, preventing a burst in many cases (combined with a successful save). That leaves the element of danger when several are in an area.

 

[freyar]

For the red text, 3d4 is good for damage, and a Cha based DC is fine.

hp damage done to the spike skeleton, maybe 1d3? Let's also give it a minimum hp loss to trigger the bonespray. Maybe 2? That will also help prevent chain explosions.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

You know, since "the purpose of the bonespray is to draw blood", I think we should give 'em bleeding wounds with the bonespray attack.

Bleeding Wounds (Ex): A wound from a spike skeleton's bonespray attack continues to bleed after the injury was inflicted. Each wound bleeds for 1 point of damage per round thereafter. Multiple bonespray wounds result in cumulative bleeding loss (two wounds deal 2 points of damage per round, and so on). The bleeding can be stopped only by a successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other healing spell (heal, mass heal, and so on).

 

[freyar]

Ahh, so then the burning blood only affects people who are currently bleeding due to the bleeding wounds? These are getting nicer and nicer.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

CR 2?

Special ingredients: The thorns must be specially carved from bones taken from the same type of creature that is to be animated (i. e. human bones for a human skeleton). A glyph is carved into each thorn before it is attached to the skeleton with a resin made with fresh bone marrow. During animation, a shatter spell is cast in conjunction with animate dead. After animation, the 6th-level necromancy spell imbue undead with spell ability is cast, along with Beltyn’sburning blood.

Go with the complicated creation process, or simplify to the usual "Spike skeletons can be created with a create undead spell cast by a xth-level spellcaster"?

 

[freyar]

A tough CR 2, I guess. I'd say create undead, maybe with carved bone thorns as a special ingredient.

 

[demiurge1138]

I'm on the fence between CR 2 and 3.

A few notes: their spike attack doesn't have an attack bonus, and they have too many hit points--without Toughness or something similar, they should have 19 hp. Also, their claw attacks should be at +2 (+1 BAB, +1 Str).

 

[Shade]

I fixed the attack lines and hit points. Updated.

Hmm...although tough for CR 2, I don't think they're even close to a wight at CR 3. So stick with strong CR 2?