Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[Cleon]

Looking at those stats, a couple of things occur to me.

Firstly, does it feel right to have the dust skeleton have the same strength as a regular SRD skeleton? They're supposedly very frangible, so maybe the template should include a racial penalty to Strength?

Secondly, I'm wondering whether the template's claw damage description needs a bit more work. At the moment if you applied the template to a gargoyle (1d4 claws), you'd get a Gargoyle Skeleton with the same 1d2 claw damage as a Human Skeleton. That doesn't seem right.

Maybe change the template with something like:

Attacks: A dust skeleton's claw attacks deal damage as if the skeleton were two size categories smaller than normal (to a minimum of 1 point of damage for dust skeletons of up to Small size). If the base creature already has natural attacks, these do damage as if the base creature was one size smaller. If the base creature's natural attacks include claw attacks, use the dust skeleton claw damage if it’s better.

That way a dust skeleton tiger would do 1d6 with its claws, 1d8 with its bite; a dust skeleton ogre would have two 1d3 damage claws; a dust skeleton gargoyle would have two 1d3 claws plus a 1d4 bite and 1d4 gore, et cetera.

 

[Shade]

Firstly, does it feel right to have the dust skeleton have the same strength as a regular SRD skeleton? They're supposedly very frangible, so maybe the template should include a racial penalty to Strength?

It feels right to me, as fragile does not necessarily equal weak. I'd rather not lower the Str. However...

Secondly, I'm wondering whether the template's claw damage description needs a bit more work. At the moment if you applied the template to a gargoyle (1d4 claws), you'd get a Gargoyle Skeleton with the same 1d2 claw damage as a Human Skeleton. That doesn't seem right.

Maybe change the template with something like:

Attacks: A dust skeleton's claw attacks deal damage as if the skeleton were two size categories smaller than normal (to a minimum of 1 point of damage for dust skeletons of up to Small size). If the base creature already has natural attacks, these do damage as if the base creature was one size smaller. If the base creature's natural attacks include claw attacks, use the dust skeleton claw damage if it’s better.

I'll agree with that.

Looking at those samples the Death Throes DCs look a bit low.

Should we add a +2 racial bonus on Death Throes DC to the template?

I'd be OK with that as well.

Any objections?

 

[freyar]

Keep the Str (fragile means lower Con! ), but I'll also agree to the rest.

 

[demiurge1138]

Agreed to keeping Str, and I'd rather not drop the dice on the natural attacks.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

Do we need to offer any variations on the creation rules? The Libris Mortis variants don't have additional requirements.

 

[Cleon]

Agreed to keeping Str, and I'd rather not drop the dice on the natural attacks.

Upon reflection I'm fine with keeping the Strength unchanged. (Mainly because it would sap the save DCs if we cut it).

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

Do we need to offer any variations on the creation rules? The Libris Mortis variants don't have additional requirements.

Don't think it's necessary. I'd be fine with just setting a minimum caster level.

 

[Shade]

The Libris Mortis rules also don't change the caster level requirements, despite some adjusting the CR by +1. Is it necessary here?

 

[freyar]

It's probably ok just to leave it alone. DMs can always change it if they wish, and I always thought the undead creation rules were a little strict anyway.

 

[Cleon]

The Libris Mortis rules also don't change the caster level requirements, despite some adjusting the CR by +1. Is it necessary here?

I guess we'll just skip it then.