Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

It's looking pretty good, but I'm not fond of the immunity to enchantments ability. I'd recommend replacing with "immunity to charm and compulsion effects" or simply "immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities" on the SQ line.

Like freyar, I'd rather stick with the standard hyena for the alternate form. If you want to allow a Large version, how about adding "or hyaenadon" to the ability? Then we don't need to include an additional stat block.

 

[Cleon]

It's looking pretty good, but I'm not fond of the immunity to enchantments ability. I'd recommend replacing with "immunity to charm and compulsion effects" or simply "immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities" on the SQ line.

Of the two I prefer "immunity to charm and compulsion effects". I think they should still be vulnerable to fear as well as mind-trickery such as illusions.

Like freyar, I'd rather stick with the standard hyena for the alternate form. If you want to allow a Large version, how about adding "or hyaenadon" to the ability? Then we don't need to include an additional stat block.

I'd be happy with adding a hyaenodon.

Alternate Form (Su): A ghula can assume the form of a hyena or a hyaenodon.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

Skills: 9 at 9 ranks

Feats: 3

 

[Cleon]

Since they rob graves of their valuables I'm thinking we should give them the same as the SRD's Efreet:

Treasure: Standard coins; double goods; standard items

What Treasure Type was in Type E again, I'm not 100% sure the above's a good match to it. I just was going by a vague memory that it was good on the mid-range coins and jewelery and had a few magic items.

EDIT: Belay the question, the AD&D Treasure types are in the Enworld Monster Conversion Notes.

Type E is:
1-10 1,000s of copper pieces: 5%
1-12 1,000s of silver pieces: 25%
1-6 1,000s of electrum pieces: 25%
1-8 1,000s of gold pieces: 25%
1-12 gems: 15%
1-8 jewelry: 10%
Maps or Magic Items: Any 3 plus 1 scroll: 25%

That looks pretty close to how I remember it, although it's got a bit more magic and less gems than I remember.

I'm happy sticking with the current Treasure line of Standard.

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

Skills: 9 at 9 ranks

Feats: 3

Okay, here's some SRD critters that seem relevant comparisons:

Ghoul
Skills: Balance +6, Climb +5, Hide +6, Jump +5, Move Silently +6, Spot +7
Feats: Multiattack

Efreet
Skills: Bluff +15, Craft (any one) +14, Concentration +15, Diplomacy +6, Disguise +2 (+4 acting), Intimidate +17, Listen +15, Move Silently +16, Sense Motive +15, Spellcraft +14, Spot +15
Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative (B), Quicken Spell-Like Ability (scorching ray)

Jann
Skills: Appraise +11, Concentration +10, Craft (any two) +11, Diplomacy +3, Escape Artist +6, Listen +11, Move Silently +6, Ride +11, Sense Motive +11, Spot +11, Use Rope +2 (+4 with bindings)
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative (B), Mobility

Hyena
Skills: Hide +3*, Listen +6, Spot +4
Feats: Alertness

The Ghoul seems a good start skill-wise. I don't see them having Balance, but I'd give them the all the other skills:

Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot

That leaves them another 4 from the Genie's skills. Appraise seems suitable, from their love of treasure. Bluff would reflect their fondness for deceiving travellers. Intimidate would go with their Scare power. That leaves one more. I'm thinking Listen. They don't seem very social, civilized creatures (so no Craft or Diplomacy), and since they don't have any combat-worthy spells or SLAs there seem no point in giving them Concentration.

They do like to pretend to be other creatures though, so they'd need Disguise. I think I'll distribute two "maxed out" skill allotments between Appraise, Bluff and Disguise. There are stories about folks spotting a Ghula's really a monster from their odd behaviour or the sight of a cloven hoof beneath the "lady's" robes, so they don't seem to be that good at pretending.

Skills: Appraise 6, Bluff 6, Climb 9, Disguise 6, Hide 9, Intimidate 9, Jump 9, Listen 9, Move Silently 9, Spot 9

Feat wise I'm thinking we could just give them the same selection as a Jann.

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative (B), Mobility

 

[Shade]

Looks good. Updated.

Challenge Rating: 4? They are essentially just variant jann.

A ghula stands about x feet tall and weighs about x pounds. (Similar to a human?)

Ghula speak x.

Jann speak Common, one elemental language (Aquan, Auran, Ignan, or Terran) and one alignment language (Abyssal, Celestial, or Infernal).

So how about Common, Abyssal, and one elemental language?

Cleon, care to write up the flavor text since you suggested their direction?

 

[Cleon]

Looks good. Updated.

Challenge Rating: 4? They are essentially just variant jann.

A ghula stands about x feet tall and weighs about x pounds. (Similar to a human?)

Challenge rating 4 seems fair. I think they're probably a little bigger than an average human.

A ghula stands between 6 and 7 feet tall and weighs about 250 pounds.
​

Ghula speak x.

Jann speak Common, one elemental language (Aquan, Auran, Ignan, or Terran) and one alignment language (Abyssal, Celestial, or Infernal).

So how about Common, Abyssal, and one elemental language?

That suits me.

Ghula speak Common and Abyssal, plus one elemental language (Aquan, Auran, Ignan, or Terran).
​

Cleon, care to write up the flavor text since you suggested their direction?

Before I start on that, there's one other thing I'd like to sort out.

Should we have clerics be able to turn these things like in Moldvay's version? I think there is some justification for it, since I remember one Sinbad tale where he wrote out passages from the Koran to keep away evil spirits, but I don't like the idea of clerics destroying them with turn attempts.

Instead, I fancy having them be repelled by holy items or prayer, similar to how a holy symbol affects a vampire. Something like the following:

Fear of Sanctity: Ghula have a pathological terror of holy objects, places and phrases. These things don't harm the ghula — they merely keep it at bay. Ghula will refuse to enter sanctified ground, and recoil from any creature that is reciting prayers (requires a DC15 Knowledge (religion) check) or strongly presenting a holy symbol. Holding a ghula at bay in this fashion takes a standard action each round. A recoiling ghula must stay at least 5 feet away from the praying or symbol-holding creature, and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature.

The recoiling ghula can attempt a DC20 Will save to overcome its terror, but can only make one attempt per encounter. If it succeeds at the Will save, the ghula can enter the sanctified ground or attack the creature holding it at bay, but is shaken for the remainder of the encounter. If it fails the Will save it becomes frightened and flees for X minutes.
​

Getting back to the description and flavour text, how about this:

A horribly ugly creature built like a lean and sinewy human, with massive spade-like hands and thick, dirt encrusted nails. Some of its features are disturbingly animalistic - large yellow eyes like a lion, hooflike feet, and a hyena's ears and fangs. Its skin is the color of red desert sand, brown soil and gray ash, mixed together in splotches and spots.

Ghula are man-eating genies that have been exiled to the Prime Material Plane. They are mostly found in desert wildernesses and lurking around graveyards. Some efreet and dao keep ghula as slaves or servants, but the majority of other genies regard ghula as despised outcasts.

The name "ghula" is feminine; not because ghula are all female but because both male and female often disguise themselves as women. They find this is an excellent way to deceive their victims.

Ghula are adept shapeshifters, able to take on the appearance of almost any living creature. Their favorite form is a hyena - either regular sized or giant. Ghula can also turn invisible in an instant and have minor power of illusion. Ghula can not plane shift like most other genies.

These genies love the taste of humanoid flesh and spend most of their time plotting how to acquire it. A few "civilized" ghula like finely cooked humanoid meat, but the majority eat it raw. Their commonest tactic is to disguise themselves as a friendly stranger and try to tempt a victim to a lonely spot with the promise of fine dining, pleasure or treasure. Another favorite ploy is to lure lost travelers deep into the desert using illusory fires and sounds.

Ghula often dig up graves to eat the recently interned and steal the gravegoods. They also break into tombs, but only in search for treasure. They have no more interest in eating an old, decaying corpse than a lion would.

In its natural form, a typical ghula stands between 6 and 7 feet tall and weighs about 250 pounds.

Ghula speak Common and Abyssal, plus one elemental language (Aquan, Auran, Ignan, or Terran).

 

[Shade]

Looks good. I re-arranged a bit, and moved some to tactics.

Updated.

Finished?

 

[Cleon]

Looks good. I re-arranged a bit, and moved some to tactics.

What about the proposed Fear of Sanctity. Didn't you like it?

Finished?

Not quite, I'd like to add some more social info:

Ghula are not irredeemably wicked, a significant minority are not evil and have conquered their lust for humanoid flesh. Many reformed ghula have taken up a Good- or Neutral-aligned religion. Most non-evil ghula are Chaotic Neutral pranksters who delight in tricks and petty theft, although their jokes can turn very dangerous if they are angered. A few ghula are even benevolent creatures who help lost pilgrims, only terrorizing wicked or impious folk. Good-aligned ghula (and some neutral ghula) have a Fear of Sacrilege instead of an evil ghula’s Fear of Sanctity; they recoil from unholy symbols or blasphemous prayers and blasphemies, and refuse to step upon ground that has been desecrated.

Even evil ghula are not invariably hostile. They will associate with humanoids who share their malevolent nature, usually bandits or malevolent spellcasters. They expect their friends and allies to share their taste for humanoid flesh, anyone who refuses to join in their feast will become a meal rather than a guest. A few powerful ghula rule over entire tribes of humanoid cannibals in small, hidden kingdoms. Such “civilized” evil ghula often use id moss to drug strangers and slaves into idiocy, the witless captives are then fattened up with rich foods before being roasted and eaten.
​

If you don't like Fear of Sanctity you'll need to cut out the bit in red.

 

[Shade]

Sorry, I forgot about that. Looking back, I like it, and would like to limit the fleeing to 1 minute.

As for this part...

Good-aligned ghula (and some neutral ghula) have a Fear of Sacrilege instead of an evil ghula’s Fear of Sanctity; they recoil from unholy symbols or blasphemous prayers and blasphemies, and refuse to step upon ground that has been desecrated.

I'd rather change their alignment to "always chaotic evil" or "always evil, usually chaotic". They are cruel and anthropophagus, so I can't begin to imagine a good-aligned ghula (shudder). Since ghouls are "always chaotic evil", I think that works fine.