Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[freyar]

I think I like a 5 ft burst. But I'd rather go with 1/hour or 1/day than death throes. We've got plenty of precedent (like 1 poison bite per day for kreen, right?).

 

[Cleon]

I think I like a 5 ft burst. But I'd rather go with 1/hour or 1/day than death throes. We've got plenty of precedent (like 1 poison bite per day for kreen, right?).

I'd be happy with a 1/day 5 foot burst that only affects creatures wounded by the spikes.

Shall we keep the 3d4 fire damage per round over three rounds, with a save each round to negate? I'm tempted to make the damage reduce each round (3d4/2d4/1d4) so we have a primary/secondary duration like with flaming oil attacks.

What saves shall we use? There are arguments for Reflex (to avoid the initial spray or snuff the resulting fire) or Fort to shake off the "fiery blood infection". I'm thinking Reflex to avoid the initial effects, then Fort for subsequent rounds.

Something like:

Burning Blood (Su): Once per day a spike skeleton can add a spray of burning blood to a spike burst special attack. In addition to the spike burst's normal effects, all creatures within the 5 ft. burst area of effect that is damaged by a spike skeleton's spikes must make a DC Reflex save or their wounds will burst into flames. Creatures wounded by earlier spike burst or spike melee attacks are also affected, as are creatures wounded by the spikes of another spike skeleton. Any creature without blood or a blood-like fluid such as ichor is unaffected by the burning blood.

A creature affected by burning blood takes 3d4 fire damage in the first round. It must then succeed at a DC X Fort save or take an additional 2d4 fire damage in the second round, if it fails it must then succeed at a second DC X Fort save or take an additional 1d4 fire damage in the third round.

The save DCs are Charisma-based.
​

 

[Shade]

I'm not a fan of the lessening damage, as the original spell doesn't do that, and it just adds additional bookkeeping for the DM.

I definitely vote Fort save like the original spell. I don't think an initial Ref save is necessary, as victims presumably already get one vs. the spike burst attack.

 

[Cleon]

I'm not a fan of the lessening damage, as the original spell doesn't do that, and it just adds additional bookkeeping for the DM.

I definitely vote Fort save like the original spell. I don't think an initial Ref save is necessary, as victims presumably already get one vs. the spike burst attack.

That's OK, I was just throwing out ideas to see what stuck. So we're talking something like:

Burning Blood (Su): Once per day a spike skeleton can add a spray of burning blood to a spike burst special attack. In addition to the spike burst's normal effects, all creatures within the 5 ft. burst area of effect that is damaged by a spike skeleton's spikes must make a DC X Fort save or their wounds will burst into flames. Creatures wounded by earlier spike burst or spike melee attacks are also affected, as are creatures wounded by the spikes of another spike skeleton. Any creature without blood or a blood-like fluid such as ichor is unaffected by the burning blood.

A creature affected by burning blood takes 3d4 fire damage per round for up to three rounds. They may make a DC Fort save at the end of each round of damage, a successful save prevents any further damage from that instance of burning blood.

The save DC is Charisma-based.
​

 

[demiurge1138]

Cleon's phrasing makes it seem as if when a skeleton uses blood burst, anyone wounded by previous spike attacks, even if they're not in the radius of the burst, is affected. If that is the intention, I really don't like it. If it isn't, it needs to be rephrased.

 

[freyar]

I think I agree with demiurge. Also, when did the burning blood get separated from the spike burst? Aren't they part of the same special attack? Hmm, I guess, going back and looking at the original text, we could take it either way.

 

[Cleon]

Cleon's phrasing makes it seem as if when a skeleton uses blood burst, anyone wounded by previous spike attacks, even if they're not in the radius of the burst, is affected. If that is the intention, I really don't like it. If it isn't, it needs to be rephrased.

I'd have thought the "all creatures within the 5 ft. burst" bit was reasonably clear that only creatures within the spike burst would be affected, but I'd be happy to rephrase it.

I think I agree with demiurge. Also, when did the burning blood get separated from the spike burst? Aren't they part of the same special attack? Hmm, I guess, going back and looking at the original text, we could take it either way.

The original description is quite clear that the spike skeleton can only 'cast' burning blood once per day, but can use spike burst multiple times. It makes sense to make them separate special attacks.

So, how would you like to rephrase the burning blood special attack?

Something like:

Burning Blood: Once per day, a spike skeleton can add a spray of burning blood when making a spike burst special attack. The burning blood ca n affect all opponents within the area affected by the spike burst, a 5 foot burst centered on the skeleton. Any opponent within this area that has unhealed wounds from a spike skeleton's spike burst or spike melee attacks must must make a DC X Reflex save or their wounds will burst into flames, taking 3d4 fire damage per round over the next three rounds. They can make an additional DC X Reflex save after each round of fire damage to extinguish the flames and stop any further damage from that instance of burning blood.

Creature without blood or a blood-like fluid such as ichor are unaffected by the burning blood. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
​

Is that better?

 

[freyar]

Well, I do think the phrasing of the original text ties the two abilities together, but it probably makes more sense to separate them.

Yes, the new wording is more clear.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

A few issues:

If we retain the skeleton's Cha score, and make the burning blood Cha-based, it will suffer a -5 penalty. Should we raise the Cha to 10, or make the ability Dex-based?

Should the spikes offer something akin to barbed defense, but only vs. grapples since they are short?

I'd like to retain the original's name of "bonespray" for the shattering spike burst.

 

[freyar]

Let's raise Cha to 10.

I could see grapple-only barbed defense, sure.