Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[freyar]

That scaling seems reasonable to me, though I wonder why we wouln't follow usual progressions for improvement of damage dice.

 

[Shade]

Good point that scaling is necessary, and I agree with Freyar that we should stick with a standard damage progression. The original 3d4+2 is an unusual choice. How about we simplify it to 2d6 for Medium, and progress normally from there? If we want to keep a "+", let's use Str or Cha modifier.

The bonus on Hide skills makes sense, and the suggested class skills as well.

Oh, a sample frost giant sounds fun!

 

[freyar]

Starting with 2d6+Cha at Medium makes sense. If we want the "+s" to scale, though, I guess we should go with +Str. No bother with me either way. And agreed to the frost giant!

 

[Cleon]

Starting with 2d6+Cha at Medium makes sense. If we want the "+s" to scale, though, I guess we should go with +Str. No bother with me either way. And agreed to the frost giant!

Well I quite liked the idea of using d4s just for the sake of variety, but I'd be OK with 2d6 as the base for a Medium sized Crystal Skeleton with Strength as the bonus stat. That would make the progression:

Tiny or smaller 1d6
Small 1d8
Medium 2d6
Large 3d6
Huge 4d6
Gargantuan 6d6
Colossal 8d6

Which is pretty close to the d4 version.

Glad you liked the idea of using a Frost Giant as a sample creature. Most of its stats will fall out simply by applying the template to the SRD Frost Giant, we just need to select some skills and feats.

The Frost Giant's feats of Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder and Power Attack are a decent selection. We could leave it unchanged, or swap out Great Cleave for Weapon Focus (claws) and Improved Sunder for Lightning Reflexes.

As for skills, its lower Intelligence means it will have only 17 skill points. Of the SRD giant's skills, Craft seems rather unlikely and Intimidate won't be very effective with a Charisma of 1, so how about putting them in the remaining skills of Climb, Jump and Spot.

The SRD Frostie has Climb 4, Jump 4, Spot 10 for 18 SP, so we can just knock a rank off Spot and call it a day. That would make the sample monster:

Crystal Skeleton, Frost Giant
Large Undead (Cold)
Hit Dice: 14d12 (91 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 11 (-1 size, +2 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple +7/+20
Attack: Claw +15 melee (1d6+9)
Full Attack: 2 claws +15 melee (1d6+9)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Death throes 3d6+9
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/bludgeoning, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to cold, undead traits, vulnerability to fire
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +9
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 11, Con —, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: 17 [Climb +13, Jump +17, Spot +9?]
Feats: Improved Initiative (B) plus 5
Environment: Any cold
Organization: Any
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

 

[Shade]

Updated.

For the frost giant sample, let's stick with your suggested class skllls above (Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Tumble). Climb and Jump should go.

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

For the frost giant sample, let's stick with your suggested class skllls above (Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Tumble). Climb and Jump should go.

You didn't have the class skills in the template when I was doing the Frost Giant, so I used the giant's original skills as a default.

8 in Hide, 9 in Spot for Hide +4* (+12 in snow), Spot +9 ?

I'm still wondering about changing the feat selection, but I guess it's easier to leave them the same as the base creature.

Having it Improved Sundering stuff with its claws bugs me a bit though, I wouldn't mind changing that feat to something else, maybe WF (claws) to compensate a bit for its low Undead BAB.

 

[freyar]

The new suggested skills sound good, and I also like WF (claw).

 

[Shade]

Sounds good. Updated.

All that's left is to determine what's needed to create them.

Little is known about the creation of these fell creatures, through most sages agree that animate dead, a specialized delayed shatter (see below), and protective magics are involved. It is argued that create water and control temperature 10’ radius are also needed for the creation, suggesting that not only are there dark arts at play, but unholy prayers as well.

New Spell – Delayed Shatter

This spell is similar to the second-level Wizard shatter spell in the Player’s Handbook. The differences for delayed shatter are as follows: it is a third-level spell and has a casting time of 3, the spell can be cast only on a single object, and the duration lasts until the object on which the spell is cast is destroyed. All other statistics are the same as shatter. Since this spell cannot be cast on magical items, it is assumed that this is the first spell cast to create a crystal skeleton.

I'm not convinced we need to convert delayed shatter, but I could see requiring regular shatter and some low-level cold spell in conjunction with animate dead.

 

[freyar]

Well, sometimes it's fun to convert a spell, but this is probably something covered by a metamagic feat somewhere. And I agree that it's not necessary for the creation guidelines.

 

[Cleon]

I'm not convinced we need to convert delayed shatter, but I could see requiring regular shatter and some low-level cold spell in conjunction with animate dead.

What about chill touch? It may not actually be a Cold spell, but it's chill-themed and appropriately necromantic.