OneDnD Species Playtest Summary and discussion - Cleric pack

ehren37

Legend
Not a fan of Goliath's implementation. Growing big doesnt seem to do anything. At least enlarge gives a damage bonus, but god forbid a species give something not universally useful to all classes, because then complaints that goliath wizards are being unfairly penalized will come out of the woodwork.

I really liked that aarakocra just had wings, rather than getting controlled fall at level 3, flap at level 5, fly for x minutes at whatever level. Winged Tieflings, Owlin, Faeries, and Aasimar have a feat. Why is Large, which doesnt even convey combat benefits, other than taking up more space, so forbidden?

Just let goliaths be medium or large at creation. All being big does is let you carry more, and people rarely use encumbrance anyways these days in my experience.
 

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Incenjucar

Legend
Being permanently large is game-changing, making you significantly more powerful unless you build against it but also unable to fit inside a lot of the game or travel on a reasonable sized mount.
 

ehren37

Legend
It's the default because it makes the most sense to be the default and carries the most flavor.
You are a divine being with the head of a jackal or whatever. Being able to shout "I have come on behalf of the gods!" super loud and then making the ground rumble when you stomp on it makes all the sense in the world.
That's the fiction people want, but in reality, what happens is you pray for a round and then your voice gets 3 times louder (whoopty fart). It's the verbal action that makes it lame.

We did decide that Thaumaturgy is why tieflings are disliked, because they are noisy neighbors.
 

ehren37

Legend
Being permanently large is game-changing, making you significantly more powerful unless you build against it but also unable to fit inside a lot of the game or travel on a reasonable sized mount.
How does it make you "significantly more powerful"? It limits you by being grappled/tripped by small creatures, most of whom suck at grappling/tripping. It lets you grapple/trip huge things, which is something you'd want the "big guy" species to do anyways, and we should just have by default except for the v-tude babies.

Also, more powerful than flight?
 

Stalker0

Legend
It's the default because it makes the most sense to be the default and carries the most flavor.
You are a divine being with the head of a jackal or whatever. Being able to shout "I have come on behalf of the gods!" super loud and then making the ground rumble when you stomp on it makes all the sense in the world.
Or...just case Prestidigitation.
 


Incenjucar

Legend
How does it make you "significantly more powerful"? It limits you by being grappled/tripped by small creatures, most of whom suck at grappling/tripping. It lets you grapple/trip huge things, which is something you'd want the "big guy" species to do anyways, and we should just have by default except for the v-tude babies.

Also, more powerful than flight?
Bigger AOEs, better reach, better OA presence, blocking passages, larger weapons which increase damage dice. This is one of the oldest problems in D&D.

Flight is restricted by the shape of the room and adds the danger of fall damage, and is often not especially meaningful against ranged attackers anyway. It also can't stop the adventure because you can't fit inside the adventure.
 
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ehren37

Legend
I'll go out on a limb and say Prestidigitation has more general use cases, but I would also say none of the options there are as impressive/imposing as what Thaumaturgy can do.
By RAW, Thaumaturgy doesnt even give you advantage. When there's multiple species of people that can do it at will, it shouldn't be that scary.
 

ehren37

Legend
Bigger AOS, better reach, better OA presence, blocking passages, larger weapons which increase damage dice. This is one of the oldest problems in D&D.

Flight is restricted by the shape of the room and adds the danger of fall damage, and is often not especially meaningful against ranged attackers anyway. It also can't stop the adventure because you can't fit inside the adventure.
Most of that isnt RAW. There arent rules for "large longswords", so the large goliath would still be hitting for the same d8. Reach likewise isnt granted by being large. I don't know what bigger AOS means.

I will give passage blocking and OA presence, but those are offset by being less maneuverable yourself on the field. There are also rules for squeezing.

I'm tired of these bland as tap water rules with no meaningful impacts. Go big or go home. Literally.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
Utility cantrips generally factor into roleplay-based gameplay, not raw cause-effect behavior. It's for blowing minds, not causing the target to save vs. mondblow.

--

Edit: I meant AOEs, pardon my phone keyboard.
 

ehren37

Legend
Utility cantrips generally factor into roleplay-based gameplay, not raw cause-effect behavior. It's for blowing minds, not causing the target to save vs. mondblow.
I'm saying that it shouldn't blow anyone's mind in D&D any more than showing someone your new phone would in our world. D&D magic is bland and predictable to a fault. It works more reliably than my cell phone coverage, and casters break the laws of reality more often than they poop.
 

Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game
By RAW, Thaumaturgy doesnt even give you advantage. When there's multiple species of people that can do it at will, it shouldn't be that scary.
There are many spells that don't grant advantage in the text that can cause situations that would grant you advantage, at my table at least.

And just because many people could do it does not mean it's commonplace to the point of mundanity. That's a very world specific consideration, anyway.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
I'm saying that it shouldn't blow anyone's mind in D&D any more than showing someone your new phone would in our world. D&D magic is bland and predictable to a fault.
I'm not convinced that normal people in a world where clerics can raise the dead with the power of the literal gods will shrug at proof that you have divine power.
 

ehren37

Legend
I'm not convinced that normal people in a world where clerics can raise the dead with the power of the literal gods will shrug at proof that you have divine power.
There are multiple entire species with this ability. Comparing it to being able to raise the dead is like comparing someone with internet access to web MD to an actual doctor, or some dude who took a few martial arts classes to Bruce Lee. It's the lowest form of divine power there is, and it roughly matches owning a bullhorn.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
There are multiple entire species with this ability. Comparing it to being able to raise the dead is like comparing someone with internet access to web MD to an actual doctor, or some dude who took a few martial arts classes to Bruce Lee. It's the lowest form of divine power there is, and it roughly matches owning a bullhorn.
We live in a world with nukes and volcanoes and ebola and people are still afraid of harmless bugs. You might be that person in the crowd who shouts down the divine emissary with "What are you gawking at, so she made a little earthquake big deal!" but extrapolating that to everyone is a bit absurd.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I feel like giving Goliaths a bunch of racial magic based on their giant ancestry kind of changes their vibe. I don't exactly hate it (their features were a bit anemic before), but the magicification of everything continues unabated.
I know right? I'm not sure how I feel about the Oprah Winfrey "everybody gets a magic!" design approach. I'm running a high-magic campaign setting at the moment, and even I am starting to think they should dial it back a bit. I guess magical powers are going to be the new Darkvision.
 

While I don't mind any of these new species' abilities, it seems like they are increasingly upping the species are inherently magical thread. To me, that is my only gripe. I get tired of a species being magical. It throws something off-kilter for me.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
While I don't mind any of these new species' abilities, it seems like they are increasingly upping the species are inherently magical thread. To me, that is my only gripe. I get tired of a species being magical. It throws something off-kilter for me.
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Incenjucar

Legend
While I don't mind any of these new species' abilities, it seems like they are increasingly upping the species are inherently magical thread. To me, that is my only gripe. I get tired of a species being magical. It throws something off-kilter for me.
WotC generally seems shy about mundane abilities when they could instead use spells.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
While I don't mind any of these new species' abilities, it seems like they are increasingly upping the species are inherently magical thread. To me, that is my only gripe. I get tired of a species being magical. It throws something off-kilter for me.
Put it in the feedback! If enough of us say this, simply and clearly, they may listen.
 

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