Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
I like the standard spell slot system, but I am trying to adapt the magic system to feature more at-will powers and ritual magic. I'd certainly be interested in seeing your results.
Spell-less spellcasters?
- Thread starter 1Mac
- Start date
1Mac
First Post
Maybe I'll post my work on the Pathfinder wiki. I've got a cleric and druid almost complete, as well as most of a bard. I also have a spell-less witch essentially completed, but I'm reluctant to post it as I cribbed a bunch of it from the witch in Paths of Power from 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming. Maybe if I ask them real nice.
By the way, a lot of this project has already been done for me. Kobold Quarterly 11 (on sale this week!) has a spell-less ranger, though it's a bit over-powered. Or you can use the skirmisher ranger variant from the Advanced Players Guide.
There are spell-less paladin options in Class Options 2: Paladins Prevail! from Gun Metal Games, which essentially swap out spells for feats in various ways. The Templar class from Super Genius Games is basically a spell-less paladin that isn't necessarily Lawful Good.
SGG also has a spell-less Inquisitor called the Justicar, published in Advanced Options: Inquisitor's Judgements. They also have a way of building a spell-less Alchemist in Advanced Options: Alchemist's Discoveries, where you can swap out extracts for one of two other spell-like ability types.
By the way, a lot of this project has already been done for me. Kobold Quarterly 11 (on sale this week!) has a spell-less ranger, though it's a bit over-powered. Or you can use the skirmisher ranger variant from the Advanced Players Guide.
There are spell-less paladin options in Class Options 2: Paladins Prevail! from Gun Metal Games, which essentially swap out spells for feats in various ways. The Templar class from Super Genius Games is basically a spell-less paladin that isn't necessarily Lawful Good.
SGG also has a spell-less Inquisitor called the Justicar, published in Advanced Options: Inquisitor's Judgements. They also have a way of building a spell-less Alchemist in Advanced Options: Alchemist's Discoveries, where you can swap out extracts for one of two other spell-like ability types.
1Mac
First Post
I sent a note to the PF wiki guys about a week ago; we'll see if I hear back. In the meantime I'll post stuff here.
My spell-less bard, cleric, and druid are close to done, but I wanted to ask: What spells from these classes would you say are the most iconic, or would you most want to see reworked as a spell-like ability? I'm trying to focus on low to mid power spells, as there will be greater flexibility and frequency is using magic that will make up for the absence of high-powered spell-like effects.
My spell-less bard, cleric, and druid are close to done, but I wanted to ask: What spells from these classes would you say are the most iconic, or would you most want to see reworked as a spell-like ability? I'm trying to focus on low to mid power spells, as there will be greater flexibility and frequency is using magic that will make up for the absence of high-powered spell-like effects.
IronWolf
blank
If you mean this Pathfinder Wiki, then it likely won't be posted as there is a no crunch policy there. They focus more on people and places without the stats.
Fair enough. I won't try to dissuade you then, but I will warn you that the system assumes such things exist, and it will upset the balance of things greatly, and you will have to change a lot of other rules.
Rules don't exist in a vacumn. Every change made will affect something else.
I would also playtest it before springing it on your players.
1Mac
First Post
I suppose I meant the Pathfinder SRD. Not the Paizo one, the more comprehensive fan one.
If I can retrieve it- its on an old Palm PDA I replaced with an iTouch because it was dying.
Scurvy_Platypus
Explorer
Far be it for me to suggest someone not reinvent the wheel or set themselves a project that might be harder than they anticipate, but...
This sort of territory _has_ been covered in the past. Ritual Warriors from Arcana Evolved for example might cover what you're looking for with a bit of tweaking.
If you wanna go all kinds of interesting though, I'll suggest something else:
Secrets of Pact Magic.
You can buy it from Paizo even (pdf), if that makes you happy. If you want print, you're going to have to buy it from the website.
As a nice bonus, they've included rules for converting it to the Pathfinder system:
paizo.com - Store / By Company / R / Radiance House
Now, to see if this is going to do what you'd like, head over to the website and download some samples. These will probably help you figure it out:
Secrets of Pact Magic
Unbound Witch (one of the classes)
Summary of Spirits (A basic break down of the special abilities granted by a spirit and the level of the spirit)
Aza'zati: The Green Wyrmling (One of the actual spirits)
The full book basically has a replacement for each of the base classes.
Now, even if the whole Pact Magic thing isn't your style, it should be at least somewhat useful for you to go through and see how abilities are being given to the different class types and the approximate level of them.
Of course, depending on your goal, the whole Pact Magic thing might actually be right up your alley. *shrug*
Something else to consider:
Get yourself a copy of Mutants & Masterminds (the Anime SRD/BESMd20 would work as well, but it's not popular like M&M) and build the d20 spells that you want, using the M&M powers system. Since it's an effects-based system, you should be able to cover a fair portion of what you want, especially since it's low to mid level spells you're thinking of. The spells that you can't build... *shrug*... you should be able to look at other spells you've rebuilt and use that to fake it.
After that, all you'll really need to do is figure out the mechanism you want to use to control the use of the powers.
Like I said... if you want to do it all yourself, more power to you. Sometimes a person just has a thing in their head so strong, they're not gonna listen to anything but gettin' it out their own way. I personally would rather go down the path that folks that have already spent their blood, sweat, and tears on, and tidy it up for my own purposes; or if need be, start my own trail further along from the path they've laid down. Less work to my mind.
This sort of territory _has_ been covered in the past. Ritual Warriors from Arcana Evolved for example might cover what you're looking for with a bit of tweaking.
If you wanna go all kinds of interesting though, I'll suggest something else:
Secrets of Pact Magic.
You can buy it from Paizo even (pdf), if that makes you happy. If you want print, you're going to have to buy it from the website.
As a nice bonus, they've included rules for converting it to the Pathfinder system:
paizo.com - Store / By Company / R / Radiance House
Now, to see if this is going to do what you'd like, head over to the website and download some samples. These will probably help you figure it out:
Secrets of Pact Magic
Unbound Witch (one of the classes)
Summary of Spirits (A basic break down of the special abilities granted by a spirit and the level of the spirit)
Aza'zati: The Green Wyrmling (One of the actual spirits)
The full book basically has a replacement for each of the base classes.
Now, even if the whole Pact Magic thing isn't your style, it should be at least somewhat useful for you to go through and see how abilities are being given to the different class types and the approximate level of them.
Of course, depending on your goal, the whole Pact Magic thing might actually be right up your alley. *shrug*
Something else to consider:
Get yourself a copy of Mutants & Masterminds (the Anime SRD/BESMd20 would work as well, but it's not popular like M&M) and build the d20 spells that you want, using the M&M powers system. Since it's an effects-based system, you should be able to cover a fair portion of what you want, especially since it's low to mid level spells you're thinking of. The spells that you can't build... *shrug*... you should be able to look at other spells you've rebuilt and use that to fake it.
After that, all you'll really need to do is figure out the mechanism you want to use to control the use of the powers.
Like I said... if you want to do it all yourself, more power to you. Sometimes a person just has a thing in their head so strong, they're not gonna listen to anything but gettin' it out their own way. I personally would rather go down the path that folks that have already spent their blood, sweat, and tears on, and tidy it up for my own purposes; or if need be, start my own trail further along from the path they've laid down. Less work to my mind.
1Mac
First Post
Oh believe me, I'm making this as easy on myself as possible. My cleric, for example, pretty much cribs Lay on Hands and Mercies/Cruelties from the Paladin/Anti-paladin (I'd sub the Paladin with either SGG's Templar class, or a Paladin variant without Mercies, like the Divine Defender), borrows a few Oracle Mysteries, and repurposes several cleric powers from Monte Cook's Book of Experimental Might. Most of this project involves shunting around existing powers from various sources into a playable class.
Something like this Pact Magic book you recommend could also be useful. I also like the idea of using something like M&M (I'd use TrueSorcery) to convert spells into powers.
Something like this Pact Magic book you recommend could also be useful. I also like the idea of using something like M&M (I'd use TrueSorcery) to convert spells into powers.
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