Spell Purchasing for Wizards Created Above 1st Level

[Cabral]

While your position makes sense, Cabral, the fighter in your example can either keep the sword or sell it. The wizard can do both. He can scribe the spell and then sell the spellbook, with no reduction in the spellbooks value.

Well, it's not as great as that sounds. Even then, the wizard still has to pay 100 gp per spell level to scribe the spell.

That's why I'm suggesting the cost to gain access to the spell ought to be discounted somewhat when starting a higher level character. I acknowledged this would be a house rule, but it seems reasonable and probably a better solution than that suggested above -- play a sorceror rather than a wizard for games starting at more advanced levels.

I completely disagree. While leveling the only way to be assured of having the spell you want (outside of the freebies for leveling) is through paying to crib them from another spellcaster.

Unless you want to propose that DMs roll a random list of spells found during adventuring (duplicates not rerolled) and then ask the player what he wants to scribe, discounting the spells does not make sense. It doesn't matter that the +5 vorpal sword and spell book of many spells were gifts from on high, family heirlooms, stolen from the vault of the red dragon, or found on the side of the road, you still have to pay for them.

Also note that the line you quoted was in response to a suggestion that any added spells must be purchased as scrolls. I was seeking clarification of that statement, as it is highly restrictive and not in accordance with the suggested fee in the PHB for gaining access to a spell from anothers spellbook. It also wasn't clear to me whether plane sailing was saying that this was his group's rule for starting characters above first level, or if it was a more general statement as to how his group allows spells to be acquired in actual play. I was under the impression PS was also suggesting a house rule aproach, one which is at least as coservative as my suggestion was liberal, and I was hoping to ellicit some discussion as to why he preferred to limit wizards in this manner.

That's one campaign house rule. Although I price all first level spells as scrolls since it's cheaper (Economics: Price of a good exceeds substituion good, consumers switch to substitute. ).

My guess, is that he limited it to scrolls because they have a fixed price/value. Bribing a mage to crib notes from his Tome of Supersecret Stuff +9 is a little more nebulous.

Anyway, when you look at the Player's Handbook prices, the 50g per spell level (25g at 1st lvl, 12.5g for 0th) to buy a spell isn't that bad ... it's the 100g per spell level that sticks ya.

 

[howandwhy99]

I'm playing around still. My DM allows 2 items to be bought for 1/2 cost, if the character has the appropriate item creation feats. (and no more than 2 no matter how many creation feats you take)

See my edit above. Blessed Books just aren't cost effective before a certain point.

Here is a comparision with a normal puchased spells, puchases with a Blessed Book, and then again a 1/2 priced Blessed Book. The spells are mostly 2x the "free spells" received. FYI: "free spells" are not included in this chart

[b]Number	Level		Normal		Blessed Book	1/2 cost BB[/b]
8 	0th		800		0		0
8 	1st		1200		400		400
8 	2nd		2400		800		800
8 	3rd		3600		1200		1200
8 	4th		4800		1600		1600
8 	5th		6000		2000		2000
8 	6th		7200		2400		2400
4 	7th		4200		1400		1400
+ Blessed Book		n/a		12,500		6250
[b]TOTAL[/b]			30,200		23,000		16,750

This is of course in addition to the "free spells" the character receives each level. (essentially this brings the PC up to 3x their normal starting spells.

I think this is more reasonable. I plan to pick and choose as needed each spell level instead of using a blanket format like above. But it's good to know the prices can be reasonable.

Once finished the DM gets the list. Hopefully not too much stuff is "unavailable" or "Difficult to find" (i.e. scroll purchase only)

I don't know what to think about the free spell swapping of appropriate level mentioned in post 16. Maybe this is why 0-level spells cost nothing to borrow?

 

[Cabral]

This sort of thing is precisely why the amount of resources you begin with at a higher level is lower than the amount you would have if you had "played through". The ability to say "all the spells I will be getting when we start cost x gp and make a blessed book a worthwhile item" as opposed to having to scribe the spells until you find a blessed book or can afford to make one.

There is also the perk of being able to optimize your equipment choices

Howandwhy99, judging by the cost of your 0th level spells, your math may be off. The freebies for leveling are freebies and you don't have to pay to scribe them. This includes the "all cantrips" at first level.

[B]Additional  Spell
  Spells    Level    Normal          Blessed Book       1/2 cost Blessed Book[/B]
     -       0th     -               -                  -
     4       1st*    500 gp          100 gp             100 gp
     4       2nd     1,200 gp        400 gp             400 gp
     4       3rd     1,800 gp        600 gp             600 gp
     4       4th     2,400 gp        800 gp             800 gp
     4       5th     3,000 gp        1,000 gp           1,000 gp
     4       6th     3,600 gp        1,200 gp           1,200 gp
     2       7th     2,100 gp        700 gp             700 gp

[B]SubTotal             14,600 gp       4,800 gp           4,800 gp[/B]
+ Blessed Book       -               12,500 gp          6,250 gp
[B]Total                14,600 gp       17,300 gp          11,050 gp[/B]
*Assumes you buy scrolls of the spells you want. 
Otherwise, add 25gp per spell (100g).

The 1/2 cost Blessed Book starts saving you money (here) just after the 5th level spells (up to the 5th level spells, it saves you 6,000 gp but costs 6,250 gp. The first 6th level spell costs 600 gp to scribe (not to buy) without a Blessed Book.

An important thing to remember with the Blessed Book is that if you have one, it saves on any spell you scribe later ... 7th spell? 700 gp savings. 8th level? 800 gp savings. 9th level? 900 gp savings. If they are spells you find, enemy wizards' spellbooks, for example, that money you would have to otherwise have to pay to use the "treasure"

 

[Mistwell]

Is this taking into account the fact that a Blessed Book does actually run out of pages?

 

[howandwhy99]

I completely agree that the Blessed Book is a sure bet for high level wizards.

Maybe I wasn't clear or maybe I'm misunderstanding. My previous post priced 2x the number of "free spells" received at caster level. I made this easier by just putting 8 for everything except 7th level spells. These 8/level would be in addition to "free spells". In truth, the character would receive all 0-level, twelve each of levels 1-6, and six 7-level spells.

0-level spells have no cost as the Blessed book has no inscription costs. And the Borrowed Spell Purchasing cost is [spell level x 50gp]. [0x50=0] I'm guessing this works since the RAW believes all wizards have all 0-level spell. I'm willing to bet my DM puts a limit on these though.

A Blessed Book has 1000 pages, not the normal 100. So the cost effectiveness is fairly high.

 

[Cabral]

1,000 pages is a lot!

All cantrips (19 in the PHB) = 18 pages (All wizards can prep Read Magic, so why put it in a book?)
5 first level spells = 5 pages
4 second level spells = 8 pages
4 3rd level spells = 12 pages
4 4th level spells = 16 pages
4 5th level spells = 20 pages
4 6th level spells = 24 pages
2 7th level spells = 14 pages
Total: 117 pages
That's 2 normal spellbooks (15g x2) or one blessed book barely touched.

 

[Cabral]

I completely agree that the Blessed Book is a sure bet for high level wizards.

Maybe I wasn't clear or maybe I'm misunderstanding. My previous post priced 2x the number of "free spells" received at caster level. I made this easier by just putting 8 for everything except 7th level spells. These 8/level would be in addition to "free spells". In truth, the character would receive all 0-level, twelve each of levels 1-6, and six 7-level spells.

Aha. so you did intend for that large a number of spells. In that case, double the numbers on my chart

Note about first level spells: a scroll of a 1st level spell costs 25g which is less than the 50 gp it would cost to crib notes. Since you can crib from a scroll too, just buy 1st level spells at 25g plus scribe cost, if any.

Also, your 7th level blessed book prices are off. 7*50 gp = 350 gp x4 spells = 1,400 gp

Btw, in my games, I limit it to about a dozen cantrips. And I'm thinking of ruling that what makes a cantrip a cantrip is that you can prep it from memory.

 

[howandwhy99]

Thanks for the heads up. Edited.

 

[Thanee]

Is this taking into account the fact that a Blessed Book does actually run out of pages?

Well, it has quite a few pages...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

At 13th level you want half-cost headband of intellect +6 not a shabby half-cost BBB.

Bye
Thanee