D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[pemerton]

mean it's a game, and one that is about immersion and storytelling.

Well, this is up for grabs isn't it? Some people prefer to play RPGs in a way whereby the fiction flows from the action declaration via the mechanics/system processes. I could be wrong but I get the sense that @Minigiant might be such a peson.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well, this is up for grabs isn't it? Some people prefer to play RPGs in a way whereby the fiction flows from the action declaration via the mechanics/system processes. I could be wrong but I get the sense that @Minigiant might be such a peson.

So? In that case it makes no sense to put all your fighter's customising options to support just the combat. It is pretty telling that they would deem a player actually using the options provided to make a fighter that has mechanics they can use outside combat a joke. It is no wonder their fighters feel useless outside the combat if that's the case! And if they're a GM that's even worse.

 

[Minigiant]

Why is that? Seriously, stop to consider this for a moment. Perhaps it might be good idea to shift your expectations a bit, stop obsessing about min-maxing the combat potential and actually make versatile characters. I get that the tools the game offers for doing this are flawed, but they still are there an you can use them. I mean it's a game, and one that is about immersion and storytelling. Is it actually such a huge deal what the exact DPR of your fighter is?

Well 16 STR is fine for DPR but 8 CON is questionable as that 16 STR is really only useful in times when CON is good.

Stop obsessing about min-maxing combat? That's the whole argument in this thread. That fighter are min-maxed for combat by 5e design and it takes serious weakening of combat ability to make noncombat ability viable over any other member of the party.

The whole argument is that the returns forgaining noncombat features for the fighter and barbarian are so costly or terrible that it is wiser to focus on combat and letting party members handle noncombat. And this locks fighters and barbarians out of many archetypes that they are claimed to have.

So the desires of the most picked optionof the poll cannot happen because fighters are too limited in noncombat situations and customizing them to be better at it hurts the party.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well 16 STR is fine for DPR but 8 CON is questionable as that 16 STR is really only useful in times when CON is good.

Stop obsessing about min-maxing combat? That's the whole argument in this thread. That fighter are min-maxed for combat by 5e design and it takes serious weakening of combat ability to make noncombat ability viable over any other member of the party.

The whole argument is that the returns forgaining noncombat features for the fighter and barbarian are so costly or terrible that it is wiser to focus on combat and letting party members handle noncombat. And this locks fighters and barbarians out of many archetypes that they are claimed to have.

So the desires of the most picked optionof the poll cannot happen because fighters are too limited in noncombat situations and customizing them to be better at it hurts the party.

Hurts the party? JFC, this is not some progression raid in a MMO! I would utterly hate to play with people with this sort of attitude and they would hate my ‘unoptimised’ characters.

 

[Minigiant]

Hurts the party? JFC, this is not some progression raid in a MMO! I would utterly hate to play with people with this sort of attitude and they would hate my ‘unoptimised’ characters.

Your players don't discuss which roles your characters can fill, which ones they have duplicates of, and which ones they are missing? Ever?

Yall just roll up to the table with 4-5 damage barbarians and just run with it without a word?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Your players don't discuss which roles your characters can fill, which ones they have duplicates of, and which ones they are missing? Ever?

Yall just roll up to the table with 4-5 damage barbarians and just run with it without a word?

They discuss it to have a varied party and have different niches somewhat covered. But characters don’t need to optimised. We have a bard with no social skills and the ‘face’ character is a rogue with good charisma. It would have definitely been more optimal to do it differently, but this made sense for the sort of characters the players wanted to roleplay.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I feel like the classes are mostly fine as they are for combat as long as the DM plays enemies resourceful enough to deal with all the dumb combos casters can pull off later on.

I do feel bad for the Barbarian though. He doesn't even get most of the excuses presented for martials, with no extra ASIs/feats and being long rest based on Rage, a feature that completely defines them and is pitifully easy to run out of mid-fight, and you can't use it as much on a longer day that'd favor a Fighter or a Monk. Being really MAD too, so spending feats on more utility ones can mess you up pretty badly, and his high-level damage scaling is basically the very tiny increase in Rage damage, and Brutal Critical which is just bad.

 

[Don Durito]

I feel like the classes are mostly fine as they are for combat as long as the DM plays enemies resourceful enough to deal with all the dumb combos casters can pull off later on.

I do feel bad for the Barbarian though. He doesn't even get most of the excuses presented for martials, with no extra ASIs/feats and being long rest based on Rage, a feature that completely defines them and is pitifully easy to run out of mid-fight, and you can't use it as much on a longer day that'd favor a Fighter or a Monk. Being really MAD too, so spending feats on more utility ones can mess you up pretty badly, and his high-level damage scaling is basically the very tiny increase in Rage damage, and Brutal Critical which is just bad.

I tend to feel Fighters are better. Barbarians have an achilles heal in that they are unlikely to get a good Wisdom save (Too MAD). With Fighter you can afford some points in Wisdom and you have the extra ASIs to pick up Resilient Wisdom.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Yeah, that's really weird. Other classes get stuff for saves like Diamond Soul for Monks, Aura of Protections for Paladins, Indomitable for Fighters, Slippery Mind for Rogues.

Barbs just get nothing. Something like Con Mod bonus to all saves would be good, like Aura of Protection but for yourself only.

 

[Campbell]

Rogue players who are somewhat decently skilled will generally get Sneak Attack damage on 85%+ of their attacks that land. Sometimes getting an attack to actually land can be somewhat challenging.