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[Micah Sweet]

The way level up did it is cool, very cool, I just... I don't know... like things to be a little more loose. With my version of skill challenges I set a dificulty (number o sucesses needed before 3 failures) a consequence for if the players fail and set up a problem. I let the rest happen in the table, with players trowing ideas at me and I creating checks and DCs on the spot.

I think that's great if you comfortable with your table. I do think a little more structure is useful in a rulebook.

 

[Bolares]

I think that's great if you comfortable with your table. I do think a little more structure is useful in a rulebook.

Oh, for sure! I like it when games give me structure, so I can adjust to my preferences. I just don't like it when it's too much (for my tastes). I started reading PF2 and it put me off really hard. So many tables for literally everything. That's not a game I'd be interested in DMing. Really fun to play though

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, for sure! I like it when games give me structure, so I can adjust to my preferences. I just don't like it when it's too much (for my tastes). I started reading PF2 and it put me off really hard. So many tables for literally everything. That's not a game I'd be interested in DMing. Really fun to play though

From what I've read, I don't think I would like.much of anything in PF2.

 

[Rune]

I, for one, do not miss skill challenges. Their implementation runs counter to my preference for challenge-resolution on a fundamental, philosophical level.

To my mind, when a character wants to accomplish something, the player should establish a goal and an approach for achieving it within the narrative. After that, a mechanical resolution can be determined. (Part of this is because it’s not my job as a DM to think up solutions for the players. And another part is because they have access to many more tools for problem-solving than mere skills.)

Skill challenges (in my experience) incentivized (and I guess still do?) players to pick their approach based on the skill they wanted to roll. Even worse, the mathematically predictable nature of it’s punitive mechanic strongly incentivized fellow players to cajole the acting player into choosing the skill with the highest possible probability of success.

I liked 4E’s emphasis on collaborative tactics, but the skill challenges remained one major disappointment throughout the edition.

 

[Burnside]

There's no stopping the cajoling at some of my tables regardless. Bunch of cajolers.

 

[Stormonu]

Okay, the holodeck in the first adventure was cool, because it was innovative.

This one would have been better if it was the PCs out on an actual run in space, with a trainer observing. Probably will change it to that, myself.

 

[overgeeked]

Okay, the holodeck in the first adventure was cool, because it was innovative.

This one would have been better if it was the PCs out on an actual run in space, with a trainer observing. Probably will change it to that, myself.

Same. I like danger rooms to get people used to combat and I can see the point of having their first space travel be in a danger room...so they can't just pick a direction and fly off...but it does seem odd to do it twice in a row. Especially the recharging of all resources. That's a crazy powerful illusion.

 

[Bolares]

But this was their first space travel... the first chapter had a combat simulation.

 

[darjr]

I’m glad folks found something to like and have fun with skill challenges.

I’m not a fan of skill challenges. I wanted to be and tried really hard and followed all the changes and advise from WotC and Mearls but I found them to be frustrating to play, difficult to run in anyway that seemed fun, and always felt scripted.

Scripted, but I had to play 20 questions with the DM to figure out what was written in the script.

 

[Bolares]

I’m glad folks found something to like and have fun with skill challenges.

I’m not a fan of skill challenges. I wanted to be and tried really hard and followed all the changes and advise from WotC and Mearls but I found them to be frustrating to play, difficult to run in anyway that seemed fun, and always felt scripted.

Scripted, but I had to play 20 questions with the DM to figure out what was written in the script.

That's why I started not preparing the skill checks before my players asked for them. Just set the difficulty and the failure consequences and wait for your players to give you cool ideas.

 

[darjr]

Hmm. I almost forgot. There is one thing that made skill challenges work for me as a “game”. And that was the advise to tell the players up front what is going on, that it’s a skill challenge and that this is what you need to do and here is the fail condition and here is the success condition and tell them the outcomes to set the stakes.

The only problem for me and almost everyone I ever played with is that it killed the desire for ingenuity and engagement and sense of autonomy in the game.

 

[darjr]

That's why I started not preparing the skill checks before my players asked for them. Just set the difficulty and the failure consequences and wait for your players to give you cool ideas.

But that’s not a skill challenge, precisely. That’s more like traditional skill playing with some skill challenge ideas thrown in.

Don’t get me wrong, I like that more, but it’s not really a skill challenge as per 4e anymore.

But is that my disconnect? Is “skill challenge” now a much more generic term?

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's why I started not preparing the skill checks before my players asked for them. Just set the difficulty and the failure consequences and wait for your players to give you cool ideas.

Your players ask for skill checks?

 

[Stormonu]

Hmm. I almost forgot. There is one thing that made skill challenges work for me as a “game”. And that was the advise to tell the players up front what is going on, that it’s a skill challenge and that this is what you need to do and here is the fail condition and here is the success condition and tell them the outcomes to set the stakes.

The only problem for me and almost everyone I ever played with is that killed the desire for ingenuity and engagement and sense of autonomy in the game.

Yeah, I don’t like announcing it’s a skill challenge, it can be immersive breaking at times - but, I guess “roll for initiative” is sort of the same thing.

My main issue was building one. Not so hard to run one already put together, but preparing one required a lot of guesswork and “player prompting/precognition” to make it usable. And almost always, they’d come up with a method or action I hadn’t thought of that’d throw me for a bit of a loop.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah, I don’t like announcing it’s a skill challenge, it can be immersive breaking at times - but, I guess “roll for initiative” is sort of the same thing.

My main issue was building one. Not so hard to run one already put together, but preparing one required a lot of guesswork and “player prompting/precognition” to make it usable. And almost always, they’d come up with a method or action I hadn’t thought of that’d throw me for a bit of a loop.

I went back and forth on 'announce or not' but overall it seems a half backed concept for the game... one that needs more fine tuneing. I hear level up had something cool, the middle earth books had some cool things and there were a few itteration through 4e.

 

[Demetrios1453]

And here I thought it was cool to see some significant skill challenges in an adventure. This thread has kind of soured that mood...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Your players ask for skill checks?

Tons do.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

And here I thought it was cool to see some significant skill challenges in an adventure. This thread has kind of soured that mood...

No I liked them too.

 

[darjr]

And here I thought it was cool to see some significant skill challenges in an adventure. This thread has kind of soured that mood...

Sorry!

I’d bet there will be more of this kind. If that helps.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Sorry!

I’d bet there will be more of this kind. If that helps.

I hope we are seeing the begining of them trying to fine tune them