Spelljammer...just wow

[IanB]

*Shrug* I fail to see the significance. There was no map of the crystal spheres that I can recall. If you wanted your greyhawk campaign to steer clear of the realms then it could be a thousand year trip from Greyhawk to the realms, or the route could be simply unknown. You had total control over where your players went.

Plus while Eberron has it's own setup, both Greyhawk and the Realms use the Great Wheel cosmology and so default to being linked.

Coming back to this thread many hours later... 3.X Forgotten Realms does not use the Great Wheel cosmology, and does not default to any such thing. There are some shared plane names, but that's as far as it goes. I forget which book spells out the new FR cosmology - the Player's Guide maybe?

 

[Kmart Kommando]

I have three words for you:

Iron Heroes Spelljammer

It would fit right in with the whole 'magic is dangerous' theme, and just think of the kinds of stunts you could pull with gravity planes and upper and lower decks..

What could be cooler than snapping off a round with your trusty flintlock, and then literally jumping into space to get to the other ship's deck?

My group, for the most part, say they don't like Spelljammer, but then, they haven't played IH yet either. My IH game starts soon, maybe they'll get into space eventually.

 

[Rabelais]

Giff d20?

Anybody statted out the giff? I could use somehing like this for my planescape game

 

[Pants]

I'm going to defend SJ here for a minute, bear with me...

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but what I don't like about SpellJammer are the pseudo-antique physics. I'd much rather have a "D&D in Space" supplement that used up-to-date physical assumptions. I dig the space-faring sailing vessel idea, but it should have to be insulated against vacuum and radiation. You should have to face 'mundane' hazards like black holes and pulsars as well as the fantastical stuff.

That kinda defeats the purpose of SJ, turning it from a wacky, wahoo style game into, well, pretty much any generic Sci-Fi game. The 'appeal' of SJ, as I see it, is with how incredibly strange it is and how it takes time-honored concepts of 'space' and twists them into wholly unique directions.

The execution may have been lacking, but the idea was still kinda cool.

I'd keep things in SJ mostly like they were, but I'd have it be D&D in realistic outer space.

Realistic and D&D don't go together.

The only valid arguments I've seen here ended up not being valid at all.

Thank god you're here so that I know what's valid and what isn't.

Speaking of which, the other debate on SJ was it's "goofiness". Um, Star Wars has goofiness in it yet tons of people still like Star Wars. Dragonlance had those stupid, goofy Gully Dwarves and kleptomaniac kender and tinker gnomes....yet Dragonlance didn't lose its fan base because of that.

DL does get a lot of flak for its stupid races, fortunately the stupid races are relatively contained within one setting (aside from some small cross pollution via PS or retconns ). SJ, being a 'tie your settings together' thing, spread its potential stupidity everywhere... where it didn't belong.

I dunno about some people here, but as I've said before, I'm looking through these SJ monstrous compendiums and the creatures in these other SJ sourcebooks and I find a lot of these creatures really neat. Rogue Moons and Astereaters and all other sorts of unique D&D-space creatures sparks enough of an imagination for me to just get up and start a 3E SJ...somehow.

It's a concept called 'tastes differ.'

"It's not my cup of tea" isn't a valid argument?

No.

Coming back to this thread many hours later... 3.X Forgotten Realms does not use the Great Wheel cosmology, and does not default to any such thing. There are some shared plane names, but that's as far as it goes. I forget which book spells out the new FR cosmology - the Player's Guide maybe?

This board needs a can of worms smiley...

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Anybody statted out the giff? I could use somehing like this for my planescape game

You can find a 3.5 version of the giff here.

Later
silver

 

[danzig138]

it was awesome, it's like Pirates of the Caribbean but in space

You pretty much nailed what I didn't like about it. PIRATES IN SPPAAAAAACCCCEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not my bag. Some of the creature were ok (I thought the GSH were pretty funny), but otherwise, yeah, it just wasn't my thing. I don't like pirates, sailing ships, sailing ship adventures, swashbuckling, etc. And it did seem to come up in other products a little too much for my taste as well. But it worked for other people, so more power to them.

 

[Korgoth]

That kinda defeats the purpose of SJ, turning it from a wacky, wahoo style game into, well, pretty much any generic Sci-Fi game. The 'appeal' of SJ, as I see it, is with how incredibly strange it is and how it takes time-honored concepts of 'space' and twists them into wholly unique directions.

I really have absolutely no idea where this is coming from. Wizards and Paladins sailing through space on a galleon is somehow "generic Sci-Fi"? Anything that has space be an actual vacuum is "generic Sci-Fi?" I don't get that. What I posited had sailing ships in outer space, wizards, knights, dragons, beholders, mind flayers, hippopotamus men and wands of fireball, but simply because in my version you still can't breathe in outer space that's "generic Sci-Fi"?

That's... utterly incomprehensible to me.

 

[Hairfoot]

My thoughts, agreements and additions:

1. When released, SJ broke too many conventions to be popular, but the orthodoxies of the fantasy genre have been blown wide open by now, so SJ deserves another look. It fits in with 3.5 far better than AD&D.

2. If traditional/converted SJ isn't your cup of tea, I highly recommend you check out Shadows of the Spider Moon before casting judgement. I wish it was an entire sourcebook.

3. Has Disney's "Treasure Planet" been mentioned in this thread? It's a de-facto Spelljammer movie. Ignore the predictable, saccharine plot and characters, and enjoy the aesthetic.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I thought Spelljammer was a lot of fun, but a combination of three factors is what I guess did the setting in:

1) Crossover. I understand why people resented the idea of another setting intruding on their favourite world; I think it's a foolish complaint, given how easy such impositions are to ignore - though that Ruins of Greyhawk bit Whizbang mentioned would really have sucked - but I appreciate that it's one a lot of people had nonetheless.

2) Goofiness. Tinker gnomes with giant hamsters, giff and dracotaurs, even the Hammerhead and Nautilus spelljammers were too silly for some.

3) Diversion from the core mode of play. Like it or not, the majority of D&D play has always been about worlds with countries and wilderness and dungeons to explore and kill things in and loot. I'm no more surprised that Spelljammer wasn't popular than I am when primarily sea-based campaigns aren't popular - most people want towns and dungeons and caves and forests to adventure in and around.

 

[Pants]

I really have absolutely no idea where this is coming from. Wizards and Paladins sailing through space on a galleon is somehow "generic Sci-Fi"? Anything that has space be an actual vacuum is "generic Sci-Fi?" I don't get that. What I posited had sailing ships in outer space, wizards, knights, dragons, beholders, mind flayers, hippopotamus men and wands of fireball, but simply because in my version you still can't breathe in outer space that's "generic Sci-Fi"?

I'm talking more about the generic sci-fi threats like black holes and such actually. Though YMMV obviously, I just think the completely unspacelike nature of SJ is part of its charm I suppose.