adam_antio
First Post
It should have been asked over and over again, but I can't find anything. Long story short: has a 19 wizard/1 cleric access to 9 level cleric spells?
D&D 5E Spellprepared/known for multiclassed spellcaster
- Thread starter adam_antio
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Sage Genesis
First Post
By the strictest reading of the rules: yes. But I believe this to be an oversight based on poor wording. (A recurring bugbear in 5e's "natural language".)
The issue is that "Spells Known" are determined by each class individually. However, Clerics don't have spells known. They just access all of them without any "known" limitations (except for cantrips). Spells prepared for Clerics also has a limitation, namely that you must have spell slots available to cast that spell. The problem here though is that spell slots are not determined by each class individually but they're instead merged into one giant, classless pool.
Ergo, Clerics can prep any Cleric spell for which they have slots... even if those slots come from 19 levels of Wizard.
This is how the rules work RAW, as best I'm able to determine.
But I also believe it's not how they're were supposed to be RAI. I believe that Clerics ought to be read as if they had a rule that stated, "Clerics know all non-cantrip spells on the Cleric list for which they have spell slots, as determined on their class level progression chart."
The issue is that "Spells Known" are determined by each class individually. However, Clerics don't have spells known. They just access all of them without any "known" limitations (except for cantrips). Spells prepared for Clerics also has a limitation, namely that you must have spell slots available to cast that spell. The problem here though is that spell slots are not determined by each class individually but they're instead merged into one giant, classless pool.
Ergo, Clerics can prep any Cleric spell for which they have slots... even if those slots come from 19 levels of Wizard.
This is how the rules work RAW, as best I'm able to determine.
But I also believe it's not how they're were supposed to be RAI. I believe that Clerics ought to be read as if they had a rule that stated, "Clerics know all non-cantrip spells on the Cleric list for which they have spell slots, as determined on their class level progression chart."
So I opened the book to find text to refute you... Oops
It's interesting that they left the wording that way for Divine casters. While I agree that the RAI is probably as you put it, I've spent the last few minutes thinking about what happens if you assume the RAW are correct. There's still a limiting factor in how many Cleric spells you can prepare, after all. Assuming a Wisdom of 20, a Wizard 19/Cleric 1 could not have more than six Cleric spells prepared. Not even one per slot level. Is that actually enough balance? Probably not, but I think I will allow it for a short campaign sometime this year, just to see what effect it has. I have a divine-themed idea, and that would be a nice bit of distinction.
Sage Genesis
First Post
So I opened the book to find text to refute you... Oops
Weird, right? I dug into the PHB fully expecting to reach a different conclusion myself but I couldn't reach any other conclusion about the RAW than the one I wrote.
And it's the same text for Clerics, Druids and Paladins.
The fact that they're using a standard form makes me slightly curious to discover if it is - or possibly was, at some point in the playtest - an intentional thing. One to ask the devs about, I think
Majoru Oakheart
Adventurer
p. 164: "You determine which spells you know and can prepare for each class individually as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class."
"If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table(The Multiclass Spellcaster table) might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare."
So, following this, if you were a 19 wizard/1 cleric you can only prepare 1st level cleric spells since 1st level clerics can only prepare 1st level spells. It's not just spells known that you determine for each class individually but spells prepared as well.
The only way to determine which spells you can prepare is to determine which spell slots you have available. Since the multiclassing rules explicitly state that you determine which spells you prepare as if you were single classed. So you check the chart, you see that a 1st level cleric has only 1st level spell slots available and therefore can only prepare 1st level spells.
You then proceed to determine how many spell slots you have available to CAST as if you were multiclassed and you suddenly have level 9 slots available.
"If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table(The Multiclass Spellcaster table) might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare."
So, following this, if you were a 19 wizard/1 cleric you can only prepare 1st level cleric spells since 1st level clerics can only prepare 1st level spells. It's not just spells known that you determine for each class individually but spells prepared as well.
The only way to determine which spells you can prepare is to determine which spell slots you have available. Since the multiclassing rules explicitly state that you determine which spells you prepare as if you were single classed. So you check the chart, you see that a 1st level cleric has only 1st level spell slots available and therefore can only prepare 1st level spells.
You then proceed to determine how many spell slots you have available to CAST as if you were multiclassed and you suddenly have level 9 slots available.
adam_antio
First Post
Thanks a lot guys!
CapnZapp
Legend
[MENTION=6706099]Sage Genesis[/MENTION]: if you could update/delete your answer, that would be great - less confusion for newbies. Thanks!
The correct answer is not
"By the strictest reading of the rules: yes. But I believe this to be an oversight based on poor wording."
The correct answer is instead:
"So, following this, if you were a 19 wizard/1 cleric you can only prepare 1st level cleric spells since 1st level clerics can only prepare 1st level spells."
The correct answer is not
"By the strictest reading of the rules: yes. But I believe this to be an oversight based on poor wording."
The correct answer is instead:
"So, following this, if you were a 19 wizard/1 cleric you can only prepare 1st level cleric spells since 1st level clerics can only prepare 1st level spells."
Except that Sage Genesis is correct. The cleric class says "The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." A Wizard 19/Cleric 1 has a 9th level spell slot, so by a strict reading of the rules they should be able to prepare a 9th level spell. That is stupid, though, and clearly against the intention of the rules (which is that you should only be able to cast spells that you'd be able to cast using that single class, but can use higher-level slots to "pump" the spell), but it is RAW. It's not going to happen in any campaign I'm running, though.
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