Spells in Three Dimensions, Looking for some DM Rulings

[babinro]

My players and I seem to recall a rule about 3D combat that spells effectively have unlimited height to their attacks. IE) A fireball cast within 20 squares on ground level would effectively hit all creatures in burst 3 of any and all altitudes.

I've been reading the DMG on flying rules and the like and haven't found anything to confirm this. Anyone know the flying rules for spells? What have other DM's done for this?

The question only really comes up because my wizard character took Stinking Cloud as his daily and we weren't sure if it would effect guards located in towers 30ft above ground when it was cast at ground level (burst 2 in the case of Stinking Cloud's level 5 daily). For now I ruled that it hits everyone because I couldn't find rules to say otherwise.

Personally, I hope the rules are such that a burst 3 means a cubic burst of 3 rather than unlimited. I'll likely house rule it as such if need be since the unlimited height thing just doesn't sit right.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I treat the burst "radius" as vertical as well. But remember that burst 3 is basically 3 squares on each side of the target square. So if it was aimed "high" burst 3 would be a 7x7x7 cube [aimed at the ground it would be 7x7x4, with part of it under ground.

With the Stinking Cloud, it is, at best, 25 feet in the air [if they want it to be still touching the ground].

Not sure if it's official, but with flying they do mention the point about no penalty to diagonal movement making 3-D movement a bit easier, so treating spells the same way is fine. [Also, you don't have any area on the ground "left out" by aiming the center of the burst in mid air.]

Close burst/blast is different though, as your origin will depend on the caster ... but with a flying [or swimming] caster, you would have to factor in 3-d elements again.

 

[babinro]

Sounds like a good way to go. Too bad they don't confirm that in the rules though.

 

[amysrevenge]

I also remember seeing something about that unlimited height thing - but can't remember where.

I prefer the cube notion in general though.

 

[James McMurray]

My players and I seem to recall a rule about 3D combat that spells effectively have unlimited height to their attacks. IE) A fireball cast within 20 squares on ground level would effectively hit all creatures in burst 3 of any and all altitudes.

This was a customer service response someone received. It's totally bunk in my opinion, as it means that someone 4 squares away horizontally is out of range of your Thunderwave, but someone 200 squares above you and only 1 square East gets hit.

What have other DM's done for this?

We treat bursts and blasts as emanating in all appropriate directions. Bursts are cubes centered on their origin, blasts are cubes with their origin as one of the bottom side squares and going away from the caster.

The question only really comes up because my wizard character took Stinking Cloud as his daily and we weren't sure if it would effect guards located in towers 30ft above ground when it was cast at ground level (burst 2 in the case of Stinking Cloud's level 5 daily). For now I ruled that it hits everyone because I couldn't find rules to say otherwise.

I'd let him hit them by centering the burst higher than the ground. Same end result (guards are stinky), but you avoid the crazy infinite range stuff custserv gave.

 

[1of3]

The answer is actually in the books, although it's a bit obscure.

- The rules for aquatic combat explain how to measure distance in three dimensions.
- A burst is always explained expanding from the center uniformly in all directions. (Both in the beginning of the Power chapter and in the combat chapter.)

So a Fireball is 7x7x7 squares.


There is no explicit rule for Blasts, but I tend to treat them the same.

 

[Gort]

My players and I seem to recall a rule about 3D combat that spells effectively have unlimited height to their attacks. IE) A fireball cast within 20 squares on ground level would effectively hit all creatures in burst 3 of any and all altitudes...

This sounds very stupid indeed. I hope it's not a real rule, but not all that much, because it's a rule I would never enforce.

 

[babinro]

Thanks for the Aquatic reference 1of3. At least that is the best set of official rules to back up what I want to enforce in the future.

 

[Dalzig]

This sounds very stupid indeed. I hope it's not a real rule, but not all that much, because it's a rule I would never enforce.

That's not a real rule. It was a ruling thrown around by Customer Service back in June that some people latched onto.

 

[HighTemplar]

Like previously said, it is mentionned somewhere in the book about 3d squares, but theres not much detail about it.

burst 2 means 5sqx5sqx5sq, so 25 feet

if the guards are 30 ft high (standing on the 4th floor balcony) they couldnt be affcted by the stinking cloud, unless you dont want to affect targets on the ground as well.

35-40 tosro/head of guards
30-35 lower body of guards
25-30
20-25
15-20
10-15
05-10 torso/head of ground foes
00-05 lower body of ground foes

as you can only affect 5 of these steps im guessing you want at least the head of ground foes in, thus smoking just under the feet of the 30foot high guards.