D&D 5E Spells Without Attack Rolls: Can they Critically Hit?

[PnPgamer]

no.

 

[pdegan2814]

I use the "Crit on save roll of Nat 1" and apply max damage (not more dice). Keeps the balance of power with spell attack roll spells, but gives a nice oomph.

I think if you want to introduce some form of Critical Damage for spells with a Saving Throw instead of a Spell Attack, that's probably a good way to do it. Though over time it would average out to very similar numbers, wouldn't it? If you assume average die roles over double the number of dice, isn't that roughly equal to the max value for the regular number of dice? Though I suppose by that logic, you could also house-rule critical attack rolls to do max damage rather than doubling the dice, so that criticals have a more reliable punch, at the expense of possibly doing spike damage above the max of a normal hit. I'd certainly be open to that as a possibility, I'd hate to score a crit on the boss monster and then roll a bunch of extra 1's and 2's.

 

[jrowland]

I think if you want to introduce some form of Critical Damage for spells with a Saving Throw instead of a Spell Attack, that's probably a good way to do it. Though over time it would average out to very similar numbers, wouldn't it? If you assume average die roles over double the number of dice, isn't that roughly equal to the max value for the regular number of dice? Though I suppose by that logic, you could also house-rule critical attack rolls to do max damage rather than doubling the dice, so that criticals have a more reliable punch, at the expense of possibly doing spike damage above the max of a normal hit. I'd certainly be open to that as a possibility, I'd hate to score a crit on the boss monster and then roll a bunch of extra 1's and 2's.

Yes, thats the trade off: Spike (low or high) or consistency. I think the crits for melee/ranged are fine for swingyiness, and for save spells, a consistent "better" result on a crit (failed save) feels better. Ultimately it came down to at the table work: So I roll damage once, they all save/fail as usual but one guy who rolls a 1. So now I re-roll all those dice again? Bah, just do max and call it done. Especially since success means half damage.

Btw, I should have mentioned a "crit" success save usually means min damage as well at my table. In either case, I let Players come up with a cool narrative on how they pulled it off or failed so miserably. An 8hp Fireball (min damage due to Nat 20 on save) was described as

"Well, I just killed 5 dudes then ran up 3 flights of stairs, I am so sweaty it flashed burned the sweat but I am ok, like walking on hot coals. The 8 dmg is from hot metal and non-sweaty parts." Another time (flame strike I think), PC rolled Nat 20 and had a "unholy item from some unknown god" This was 3E and we were doing RttToEE and the unknown god was Tharzidun and these were Doomsayers. The Player said, "How about this unholy item protected me? Lets say its an item of Tharizdun." Sure, fine, but it gets turned to slag (ie one time deal).

That sort of thing really helps bring in the RP.

 

[pdegan2814]

Yes, thats the trade off: Spike (low or high) or consistency. I think the crits for melee/ranged are fine for swingyiness, and for save spells, a consistent "better" result on a crit (failed save) feels better. Ultimately it came down to at the table work: So I roll damage once, they all save/fail as usual but one guy who rolls a 1. So now I re-roll all those dice again? Bah, just do max and call it done. Especially since success means half damage.

Btw, I should have mentioned a "crit" success save usually means min damage as well at my table. In either case, I let Players come up with a cool narrative on how they pulled it off or failed so miserably. An 8hp Fireball (min damage due to Nat 20 on save) was described as

"Well, I just killed 5 dudes then ran up 3 flights of stairs, I am so sweaty it flashed burned the sweat but I am ok, like walking on hot coals. The 8 dmg is from hot metal and non-sweaty parts." Another time (flame strike I think), PC rolled Nat 20 and had a "unholy item from some unknown god" This was 3E and we were doing RttToEE and the unknown god was Tharzidun and these were Doomsayers. The Player said, "How about this unholy item protected me? Lets say its an item of Tharizdun." Sure, fine, but it gets turned to slag (ie one time deal).

That sort of thing really helps bring in the RP.

I like that minimum damage rule as well. I assume by "minimum" you mean all die rolls treated as 1's?

 

[spectacle]

I use the "Crit on save roll of Nat 1" and apply max damage (not more dice). Keeps the balance of power with spell attack roll spells, but gives a nice oomph.

Just be aware that a critical failure on a save against dragon breath and similar effects can easily result in instant character death from massive damage. These effects are balanced around a high number of dice being rolled so that the rolled damage is rarely very far from the average, letting them do max damage 5% of the time will make them a lot more dangerous.

 

[Sunseeker]

I use the "Crit on save roll of Nat 1" and apply max damage (not more dice). Keeps the balance of power with spell attack roll spells, but gives a nice oomph.

I do this as well. It works out well.

 

[Sunseeker]

Just be aware that a critical failure on a save against dragon breath and similar effects can easily result in instant character death from massive damage. These effects are balanced around a high number of dice being rolled so that the rolled damage is rarely very far from the average, letting them do max damage 5% of the time will make them a lot more dangerous.

Sure, but isn't that the point? You critically failed against a breath weapon... The fact that failing against a breath weapon isn't lethal anyway (at the appropriate level) unless you're severely wounded, rolled poorly on HP or the party squishy is a little underwhelming. The Ancient Red Dragon does a 60ft cone of 33d6, which after about a dozen test rolls, only averages about 100 damage. That's half or less of the appropriately-leveled fighter, paladin, barbarian and ranger with a good con score. Throw in toughness in there for an additional 40hp at 20th and a fighter can take average+1 every turn for +/-9 HP (assuming a minimum con of 16) and he'll have ~169HP by level 15 and 260 by level 20.

 

[MG.0]

So you're suggesting that if the creature critically failed (I assume they rolled a natural 1), then its possible to deal critical damage with the spell?

If you want it to, sure.

 

[discosoc]

Without an attack roll, you can never score a critical hit (unless you have some sort of "auto critical hit" ability or item).

I don't think even then they could "crit" since any sort of auto crit just makes a potential crit a sure thing. There has to be a to-hit roll.

 

[CapnZapp]

Spells that make you save can't crit under any circumstances.

No attack roll, no crit chance. Simple