D&D 5E Spending HP to do cool stuff - a brainstorm thread

[BookTenTiger]

In their thread about the Dark Souls RPG, @TheSword posted about spending Position (the Dark Souls HP):

PCs and bosses can spend position to get + to hit (unlimited) + to damage (up to +5) + to speed (up to your base speed value) and for special abilities and spells.

I started thinking about what this could look like in D&D. What would happen if we allowed characters and bosses to spend their Hit Points to do cool things?

If we go by Dark Souls, characters could spend Hit Points to...

• Add to attack rolls (unlimited)
• Add to damage (up to +5)
• Increase speed (up to walking speed)

Then there's Special Abilities and Spells. Ignoring Special Abilities for a moment, what would it look like to spend HP on spells? Maybe...

• Add to Spell Attacks and damage, as listed above.
• Increase the DC of a spell?
• Change the damage type of a spell?
• Concentrate on two spells?
• Access an unprepared spell?

How do you think this would change the game? What would combat look like? Is it too much of a power boost? Or is it too risky?

This is just a brainstorm thread, so please add more ideas!

 

[cbwjm]

I can't recall what notes I'd written down, or even where I've left them, but I have had the idea of spending hit dice, instead of hit points, as a limited resource. It still impacts on hit points since you have less reserves to call upon during a short rest.

You could grant each class/group of classes specific things they could do where they could spend a hit die. Pretty much what you have above, add to the attack or damage roll, maybe even allow for battlemaster manoeuvres by spending a hit die. I think it could be a cool addition to the game.

 

[Charlaquin]

One thing to keep in mind is that in D&D, spending hit points really means spending the healer’s spell slots. The Dark Souls RPG gets around this by giving you a bunch of free temp “HP” at the beginning of each combat; healing spells can’t restore that temp HP, nor do you save on healing spells by not using them.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Ugh, no unless you want to double martial/tank HP. They're routinely in the thick of it, taking the most damage so the ranged characters get to do all the cool stuff. Letting archers/casters burn HP to do even more is a rich get richer mechanic.

Make it so casters cant use it and maybe you're onto something.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

In their thread about the Dark Souls RPG, @TheSword posted about spending Position (the Dark Souls HP):



I started thinking about what this could look like in D&D. What would happen if we allowed characters and bosses to spend their Hit Points to do cool things?

If we go by Dark Souls, characters could spend Hit Points to...

• Add to attack rolls (unlimited)
• Add to damage (up to +5)
• Increase speed (up to walking speed)

Then there's Special Abilities and Spells. Ignoring Special Abilities for a moment, what would it look like to spend HP on spells? Maybe...

• Add to Spell Attacks and damage, as listed above.
• Increase the DC of a spell?
• Change the damage type of a spell?
• Concentrate on two spells?
• Access an unprepared spell?

How do you think this would change the game? What would combat look like? Is it too much of a power boost? Or is it too risky?

This is just a brainstorm thread, so please add more ideas!

We do this but with HD. You can spend HD to recharge abilities, increase damage, increase speed.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I can't recall what notes I'd written down, or even where I've left them, but I have had the idea of spending hit dice, instead of hit points, as a limited resource. It still impacts on hit points since you have less reserves to call upon during a short rest.

You could grant each class/group of classes specific things they could do where they could spend a hit die. Pretty much what you have above, add to the attack or damage roll, maybe even allow for battlemaster manoeuvres by spending a hit die. I think it could be a cool addition to the game.

We spend HD to do things, it works well for us

 

[Brotton Goodfellow]

Off the top of my head I’m thinking that it might be cool if a hit die was used to allow a character to add a D8 to any roll like Bardic Inspiration. In my homebrew rules, I’ve tied a lot of stuff revolving around healing and stabilizing to the use of hit dice. I like the idea of letting characters push beyond their normal limits but at a cost.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

While overall I am skeptical about such mechanics as a player-facing tool (partially because I am biased and find 5e combat rather rocket-tag heavy for my tastes), I have actually used them in my DW game as a boss thing. Specifically, the first "boss" the players had to fight was a spell scroll golem (affectionately known by the players as the scrollem). I gave it a large pool of HP for its intended challenge level, but it could spend some of that HP to cast actual Wizard spells against the party (flavored as literally reaching into its chest to pluck out a scroll to cast). By defeating it quickly, the party was able to recover some of its scrolls before they were all consumed.

So, at the very least, I think this can be an interesting space...I just don't think it's one that works well for player-side abilities generally. It suffers sort of the inverse problems that lifesteal suffers. That is, lifesteal is usually stupidly broken if it works at all well, but mostly useless if it isn't very powerful, and it is very hard to find the narrow sweet spot between "I can survive forever because I can just do more damage to restore my HP" and "my lifesteal simply cannot keep up, so it offers little benefit while costing me elsewhere just to have it." (A former friend of mine ADORES these kinds of mechanics...and the fact that such mechanics are so min-max-able is a major draw for them.) Conversely, "blood magic" etc. is usually a raw deal because you're sacrificing a precious resource, and long-term survival, for short-term gain...but if you go too far in making such "blood magic" worthwhile, it flips into a no-brainer down payment for assured victory.

I guess the issue is, such mechanics are EXTREMELY dependent on the fine details of their execution, even more than most questions of balance and game design. They are sufficiently sensitive that even otherwise very well-made and balanced games often struggle with making them neither worthless nor OP. Keep that in mind as you go: making them too weak is rather a wasted effort if no one would actually bother using them, while making them too strong will leave you with perverse incentives. Monsters and opponents have an easier time in this space because they aren't "expected" to last beyond a single encounter, win or lose. So spending their HP to accomplish their goals doesn't have long-term consequences, and you can thus balance around exclusively the costs and benefits within a single encounter. (4e, with its Healing Surges and 5 minute short rests, was also a more friendly environment for this kind of mechanic, because you could presume that most fights, the PC would be at max health, and thus again focus on the in-fight consequences more or less alone.)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think spending an HD to add the result to:

• Initiative roll
• Damage roll
• Trained skill check
• Speed (result x5)

limited at once per round, could be cool.

 

[TheSword]

I once suggested that Battlemaster maneuvers be opened up to any character D&D 5E - Battle Master maneuvers for any class by spending a HD It’s a similar though more powerful affect.

I think the issue with spending HD rather than spending HP is that it adds no spice to the combat because actually it doesn’t change the risk profile of that combat (it prevents future combat healing) if the DM allows sufficient short rests and runs long encounter days (otherwise long rests cheapen it).

In a game where a long rest requires a safe haven like in AIME or Dark Souls 5e then it might work, and therefore those HD actually mean something. AIME did have feats that allowed you to spend HD, I recal an elf feat that let you shoot an arrow that automatically critted by spending a HD.

The advantage of spending Hp as @BookTenTiger suggests is that it makes the decision a tough one that affects that point in time. Do you exert yourself and leave yourself vulnerable now for a one off benefit. It’s classic expediency - tempting but risky.

I hear what people are saying about casters I would have it affect spell attack rolls and spell damage but not DCs.