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Spiderman 2 Spoiler Thread

How much can you zoom in...?

AFGNCAAP said:
:D

[*]Eddie Brock rises from obscure reference in SM1 to background character in the next movie: he's out to "unmask" the Lizard, & doesn't care if he destroys a person's life as a result. Spidey, of course, foils him & gives Brock a reason to hate Spider-Man. Of course, the symbiote finds Brock, lets him in on a secret or 2, and Venom is poised to appear in the next film.
[/list]


Just a point of curiosity, the Daily Bugle cover with "Spider-Man No More" (or whatever the title was, the one with his cast-off costume) lists the photo credit by Eddie Brock.

:)
- James
 

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Saw the movie on Tuesday at a work function and really enjoyed it, much more than the first even.

My only question: why was Doc Ock robbing the bank?

But investigating logic issues too deeply just defeats the fun sometimes, so I'm more than happy to let that one slide.

- JB
 

beverson said:
did anybody else get a serious vibe that Aunt May knows Peter is Spidey? That scene in the driveway she was practically shouting it, in my eyes....
My girlfriend and I both got that vibe as well.

AFGNCAAP said:
Pete & MJ are together, & the issue is now about the 2 of them growing distant to to work, plus MJ's worry over Pete being Spider-Man (much as with the spouse of a fireman or cop, each time Pete "goes to work," it could be the last time MJ ever sees him again--that stress has got to get to her).
You see that at the very end when they show a close up of MJ at the apartment window.

AFGNCAAP said:
I think that SM3 will have a Eddie Brock rises from obscure reference in SM1 to background character in the next movie: he's out to "unmask" the Lizard, & doesn't care if he destroys a person's life as a result. Spidey, of course, foils him & gives Brock a reason to hate Spider-Man. Of course, the symbiote finds Brock, lets him in on a secret or 2, and Venom is poised to appear in the next film.
That is how I see it happenning as well, though mabey not his involvment with revealing who the The Lizard is. Pete just messes up Eddie's life and he seeks revenge.

I think the funniest scene was in the elevator "It kind of rides up n the crotch" :D that whole scene had me laughing.

A few things that bothered me were the B movie style of zooming on on women screaming, It happened several time and seemed very campy. Also what was up with the "Jesus Christ Superstar" scene on the subway, when they are passing him back on their hands, my girlfriend pointed that out and said it seemed out of place.

edit: who thinks Doc is still alive? And if he is dead why do movies insist on killing off the villians?
 
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I noticed the women screaming as well, and while it was funny the first time, it quickly got old. Also noticed the subway scene, with Peter being carried by the passengers.

Movie was good... I don't think I liked it as much as the first, but only by a little bit.

One thing that bothered me that I think should have been attended to, since I think it was a problem in the first one as well, is Kirsten Dunst. Specifically, the fact that everything she says just comes off unbelievably flat. She really needs some more inflection in her lines. It just sounds so dumb, and not in the good-cheesy kind of way.

And Aunt May is one canny old lady.

One logical gaff... a fusion reaction being dropped into a river would produce steam!!! I mean, that's basics there.
 

LightPhoenix said:
One logical gaff... a fusion reaction being dropped into a river would produce steam!!! I mean, that's basics there.
But with all the steam you not be able to see spidey rescue her. ;)
 

A few random comments in no particular order:

1. I really liked the scene where Peter's shy neighbor brought him cake. A total throw away scene as far as moving the narrative, but it really gave indication that the entire world doesn't revolve around Pete, MJ, and the villains. They encounter other people too, who don't always end up as an evil villain to fight or a damsel in distress to rescue. Just a nice little "world building" sequence.

2. In contrast, I thought having Pete and Aunt May just happening to be applying for a loan at the bank the exact moment Doc Ock tries to rob it, and then having him randomly select Aunt May as a hostage was a little too contrived. Sure that's a staple in superhero type films, but the first movie really worked to have each dramatic scene and action sequence evolve fluidly without such heavy handed one in a million randomness.

Its a really fine line to tread, I just thought in this instance it was a bit distracting.

3. I realize that this whole movie is about Peter wanting to be Peter instead of Spider-Man, but for someone so concerned about the damage that could be caused by villains learning his identity, he took his mask off a lot. It made sense on the train when his mask got damaged and he had trouble seeing out of the one eye (we'll just ignore the fact that somehow two kids recovered it after he threw it off the top of a speeding train and that it someehow repaired itself...I know--When the kids said they "found it" they meant they found one of his spares in another dumpster somewhere--Hey Stan, how about a No-Prize? ;) ), but it was getting to the point where he ripped it off every other scene.

4. I thought Peter's (funny how it feels more natural to call him Peter as opposed to Spider-Man; which goes to show how well they presented him as a character) attempt to stop the train went on too long for what he actually did. I know it was supposed to be this Herculean strain for him, but I don't think they really sold how painful and exhausting it was for him to save everyone. I don't know what I would have done, maybe add a couple popping sounds like his shoulders were dislocating, something extra. Just yelling and holding on to his webs didn't seem like it was "enough" (putting his leg down and cleaving through the track was very cool though.)

Maybe they could have had him fail to save one of the people Doc Ock threw off the train, so that it was more emotional anguish that tormented Peter as he held on, pain for not saving the passenger and also fear of just how capable Otto might be of killing MJ. Then when he collapsed at the end and the people laid him down they would have all been traumatized at losing a fellow commuter, but in Peter's anguish they find strength, and then in turn give it back to him.

As it was, I didn't think the exertion was enough to warrant the Christ-like manner in which he was carried. Sure anyone would have been in absolute awe of someone who just saved them all, but I would have liked it if they sold the moment more as a scene of the passengers bonding with one of their own as opposed to reverently moving their superhero savior.

With all that said, it ended on a wonderfully high note; when Peter came to and had that "moment" with everyone, it was nicely touching.

5. I thought the five minute or however long it was sequence in the cafe where Doc Ock throws the car through the window might be the most perfect representation of everything I love about Spider-Man; and it doesn't even involve the costume. His powers: the Spider Sense, superhuman strength and agility; the conflict between Peter and his heroic alter ego, the drama and tension in his relationship with MJ, and the spectacular comic book presence and otherworldliness of his supervillain enemies. All of it, right there, in about five minutes of consecutive screen time. Brilliant.

It was almost disturbing how intimidating Doc Ock was as he carried MJ off, oblivious to her horrified screams. Then that pivotal moment Peter took off the glasses and resolved to conduct the pursuit as a fully restored Spider-Man. Fantastic. When this movie nailed a concept, they really nailed it.

6. I don't see how anyone who's seen an Evil Dead movie couldn't chuckle at the "tentacle cams" in the hospital sequence, or the inclusion of the chainsaw.

7. I'll say it again, Alfred Molina's performance was hands down the best supervillain performance of all time bar none.

8. James Franco was surprisingly good as well. Would have made a damn fine Anakin Skywalker.

9. I thought Doc Ock's finale was a bit anticlimactic after the whole train fight, and especially after the fantastic resolution to the Green Goblin, but the epilogue with Harry finding his father's stash (I was really hoping the camera would pan to reveal an unused orange helmet of his father's) and MJ was great. I really liked how MJ broke the mold of standard comic book movie love interest and made it clear that her feelings for Peter and desire for her own happiness were just as important as Peter's concerns in determining the final decision about their future.

10. I know this would have broken a lot of "comic book" continuity, but a part of me was really hoping that when Peter decided to be Spidey again after pitching his costume in the trash that Raimi would blindside us all with him pulling out a spare costume--and have it be the black version. Okay, I recognize it probably would have been too early in the series to switch colors, but I think it would have been damn cool. :cool:

11. The more I recollect on the film, the harder and harder it is for me choose which Spidey movie I like the best. I may just have to go see this one a few more times before making my final decision.... :)
 
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Taelorn76 said:
edit: who thinks Doc is still alive? And if he is dead why do movies insist on killing off the villians?

I think they left it open nicely to have him be alive if they want to. As to why movies insist on killing off villains is because it gives a good sense of closure. While in a comic book, where they are almost positive their will be another issue and therefore can leave it more open, movies usually have to go on the fact that each one could be the last one. This means that they need to have a sense of closure and what better way for closure than to have the villain be killed? Having the villain arrested or even loose their powers just doesn't have the same feeling.

Also there is the fact that so many Superheroes have such a large gallery of villains to choose from they aren't worried about using the same villain again. Therefore they feel justified in killing off the villains since there are so many others to choose from.

With that said... I hate it. I hate having the villains in Superhero movies always be killed. Especially iconic villains like the Joker in Batman. To me that was the first big mistake in that franchise. Where as killing the Green Goblin in the first Spider-Man movie made logical sense because it was setting things up for the second and third movie. Plus in the comics the Norman Osborn Green Goblin did die also. So there was already a precedent for it.

Wow. Didn't realize I had so much to say on the subject until I started typing.
 

Kai Lord said:
A few random comments in no particular order:

10. I know this would have broken a lot of "comic book" continuity, but a part of me was really hoping that when Peter decided to be Spidey again after pitching his costume in the trash that Raimi would blindside us all with him pulling out a spare costume--and have it be the black version. Okay, I recognize it probably would have been too early in the series to switch colors, but I think it would have been damn cool. :cool:

I was kind of hoping to see a paper bag mask/fantastic four costume version myself. :)
 
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Psychotic Dreamer said:
I think they left it open nicely to have him be alive if they want to.

Definitely- I mean, do you really think the tentacles are going to let themselves be destroyed? They'll pull Ock out of the river in no time.

The question is- what kind of character will he be when/if he returns? Good? Evil? Shades of Grey?

As to why movies insist on killing off villains is because it gives a good sense of closure. While in a comic book, where they are almost positive their will be another issue and therefore can leave it more open, movies usually have to go on the fact that each one could be the last one. This means that they need to have a sense of closure and what better way for closure than to have the villain be killed? Having the villain arrested or even loose their powers just doesn't have the same feeling.

I think it is that, I also think (sadly) there is a mentality in Hollywood that the audience will be disappointed with anything less than that sense of closure, and that the only way to get it is by killing the villain. Doesn't say much for society if it's true (but I suspect it's mostly the studio execs opinion of what public opinion is.)

Also, to be fair, mysterious "deaths" are a staple of comic villains. I think that movies don't leave them "open" enough- ie, the Joker in Batman. Ock's "death" is open enough for my tastes, especially given the whole "tentacle AI" bit. If they hadn't introduced that element (and I admit, I was cringing at first, but I think they pulled it off well), then I would say Ock definitely was willing to sacrifice himself. As it is, there is a second opinion on the matter.

On a semi-related note, I had an idea that I hope they do in the next movie (or even other superhero movies) and that is, instead of having every bad guy be a major villain in the piece, why not introduce some "one-off" bad guys, just to have the hero beat up and put away. Rather than having Spidey beating up random human thugs, for instance, start the movie off with him knocking out the Rhino and having people thank him for getting rid of the superpowered menace, and not even bother having Rhino be in the rest of the movie? That way, you can satisfy "fan fervor" for seeing their favorite villains, and yet not run into the Batman problem of throwing too many supervillains into the picture so that you have a mishmash of a story (and worse, overshadow your lead character!).

I think it would be cool, anyway.
 

Cthulhudrew said:
On a semi-related note, I had an idea that I hope they do in the next movie (or even other superhero movies) and that is, instead of having every bad guy be a major villain in the piece, why not introduce some "one-off" bad guys, just to have the hero beat up and put away. Rather than having Spidey beating up random human thugs, for instance, start the movie off with him knocking out the Rhino and having people thank him for getting rid of the superpowered menace, and not even bother having Rhino be in the rest of the movie? That way, you can satisfy "fan fervor" for seeing their favorite villains, and yet not run into the Batman problem of throwing too many supervillains into the picture so that you have a mishmash of a story (and worse, overshadow your lead character!).

I've thought something similar would work also. It would have been nice to see a montage in the begining of this movie showing Spidey fighting a couple minor super-villains to give a sense that he has fought other super-villains in the two years that passed between movies. I was thinking specifically Shocker, Rhino and the Vulture. I think those three would make for some the best fight scenes in a montage of minor villains. Granted I also think the story of Spider-Man would make a wonderful dramatic TV series, but would be difficult to due to SFX limits. However thats an entirely different discussion. :)
 

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