Spiked Chain Rules?

[Aluvial]

I find this weapon to be quite frustrating in my game.

Could someone please sum up the rules and events that occur with this weapon?

It is exotic, it has reach, can hit opponents close too, is strong and does 2d4?

Why isn't it a touch attack when tripping?

What part of the body is being attacked when tripping anyway, do you always assume the legs?

What about if there is someone in the way of the attack... Could it potentially hit that person's cover or could you even attack through an occupied square with it?

If you are attempting to trip why isn't the damage subdual?

What does it take to break a spiked chain or become free of it once you are tripped and prone?

Any other issues?

Aluvial

 

[kreynolds]

I find this weapon to be quite frustrating in my game.

As a DM, believe me, I do to, but I still think it's a great weapon.

Why isn't it a touch attack when tripping?

Because you aren't touching them. The chain is. The reason its cool to be able to trip with a spike chain, or any other weapon that allows it, is because you make a normal attack, deal normal damage, and as a bonus, you can try to trip them.

What part of the body is being attacked when tripping anyway, do you always assume the legs?

Actually, you want to assume nothing. There are no body parts in 3rd Edition. Only with Vorpal, variant rules from the DMG, or house rules.

What about if there is someone in the way of the attack... Could it potentially hit that person's cover or could you even attack through an occupied square with it?

Yes and yes. See page 132 of the PH, Cover, Cover and Reach Weapons.

If you are attempting to trip why isn't the damage subdual?

A spiked chain deals lethal damage.

What does it take to break a spiked chain or become free of it once you are tripped and prone?

Nothing. The spiked chain does not stay wrapped around you after you are tripped. Once the trip has been resolved, and you are on the ground, you may get back up on your very next action.

 

[Pelosan Emperor]

Re: Re: Spiked Chain Rules?

The reason its cool to be able to trip with a spike chain, or any other weapon that allows it, is because you make a normal attack, deal normal damage, and as a bonus, you can try to trip them.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this part of the post, but I was under the impression that "trip" was a special attack that did not deal any damage in itself... it simply makes the target prone. That's why the feat Improved Trip is useful: it allows you the chance to damage your target with an additional standard attack at the same attack bonus.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

[Aluvial]

I think I had a problem with this one too....

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Spiked Chain Rules?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this part of the post, but I was under the impression that "trip" was a special attack that did not deal any damage in itself... it simply makes the target prone. That's why the feat Improved Trip is useful: it allows you the chance to damage your target with an additional standard attack at the same attack bonus.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Hmm. Maybe I'm thinking of weapons that allow you to grapple after making a normal successful attack, like the Mancatcher. Let me check up on that.

 

[Berk]

trip attacks deal no damage, that's why they have improved trip which allows you to get an attack at the same bonus to try and deal damage.

also I think it is a touch attack to trip an opponent. No books near me atm so can't check up on it so I could be wrong but I think I remember it being a touch attack to trip

 

[kreynolds]

also I think it is a touch attack to trip an opponent. No books near me atm so can't check up on it so I could be wrong but I think I remember it being a touch attack to trip

That's what the PH says, but I'm wondering if that applies when you trip with a weapon.

 

[Tyrrell]

From the SRD:

Trip an opponent [Varies][AoO: No]
A character can try to trip an opponent as a melee attack. A character can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than a character, the same size, or smaller.
Making a Trip Attack: Make a melee attack as a melee touch attack. If the attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender's Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A character gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium-size or a -4 penalty for every size category he is smaller. The defender gets a +4 stability bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If a character win, a character trip the defender. If a character lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by a character's Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip a character.
A tripped character is prone. Standing up from prone is a move-equivalent action.
A character may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may use his Ride skill in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If a character succeed, a character pull the rider from his mount.
This attack form substitutes for a melee attack, not an action. As a melee attack, it can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or even as an attack of opportunity.

 

[kreynolds]

From the SRD:

I've read the Trip entry in the SRD and PH, but it doesn't address making a trip attack with a weapon, and I thought that the case was different when doing so. Like I said, I might be thinking of weapons that let you grapple.

 

[Berk]

That's what the PH says, but I'm wondering if that applies when you trip with a weapon.

I'm pretty sure using a weapon to trip an opponent is how the designers and mechanics figured a trip attack would be made. You could use an unarmed attack but that is still concidered a weapon for all intensive purposes, and you still face the fact that you can be tripped if you fail, even while using an unarmed attack. The only benefit chains and ropes and whips give you with trip attacks is that you can drop them to avoid being tripped if you fail to trip the opponent. =o)