Splatbooks to Beware of?

[Rystil Arden]

That was the exact spell that I was thinking of. >.> My abjuration-obsessed wizard is just waiting for the time when she can use that in battle.

The entire party started cursing Themis when she calmly and politely allowed them to put up all of their buffs and then did Reciprocal Gyre + Reaving Dispel

 

[Jdvn1]

Wow. I thought our party had it bad when the GM put us against an I7FV and a Frenzied Berserker.

Two of each, actually. And a few archers and some other dudes, but those others weren't that tough.

 

[Testament]

Persistent Divine Power is a spell that only epic casters can cast (level 19). Doesn't Wraith Strike only work for your next attack? I don't have CV with me. Even if it not, Persistenting it should work out as like Persistenting True Strike, since they are similar in style.

Which is why you Divine Metamagic it. Wraith Strike only lasts for one round, so it can be Persistent.

Now, for the worst. Time Domain, Divine Persistent, Time Stop. I build a fortress and then time starts again.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Which is why you Divine Metamagic it. Wraith Strike only lasts for one round, so it can be Persistent.

Now, for the worst. Time Domain, Divine Persistent, Time Stop. I build a fortress and then time starts again.

Which is why you Divine Metamagic it.

Well clearly. E-B was trying to use that as evidence to disagree with me that Persistent is bad without Divine Metamagic though.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The problem again, however, is that spells/feats/options from multiple splatbooks are being used to prove a feat is broken.

They don't. Not every book put out by WotC can be tested against every option in every other book. It's simply not possible.

As I see it, if a feat works well with all the options presented in the core books, and in the book that introduces that feat, then it's balanced. The fact that it may break when combined with elements from other non-core books simply means that those specific combinations need to be nerfed or eliminated.

Or, to put it another way, no amount of work by WotC can eliminate the need for DM adjudication.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The problem again, however, is that spells/feats/options from multiple splatbooks are being used to prove a feat is broken.

They don't. Not every book put out by WotC can be tested against every option in every other book. It's simply not possible.

As I see it, if a feat works well with all the options presented in the core books, and in the book that introduces that feat, then it's balanced. The fact that it may break when combined with elements from other non-core books simply means that those specific combinations need to be nerfed or eliminated.

Or, to put it another way, no amount of work by WotC can eliminate the need for DM adjudication.

If this post is in conjunction with my argument that Persistent Spell is balanced, then I agree. If it is about Divine Metamagic, then I still don't agree because Divine Metamagic is extraordinarily powerful, better than all similar options, with only core rules and not trying to break it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

If this post is in conjunction with my argument that Persistent Spell is balanced, then I agree. If it is about Divine Metamagic, then I still don't agree because Divine Metamagic is extraordinarily powerful, better than all similar options, with only core rules and not trying to break it.

I don't really agree that it is better than all similar options, though. You're talking about the ability to do something once or twice a day, which requires multiple feats to pull off, and which strips the character of one of his other major class abilities. (Anyone tossing around Divine Metamagic isn't going to have Turns available for much else.)

Is it a good option? Absolutely. And I can see it being broken for certain campaigns, including quite a few that I've run. But assuming the level of magic/treasure/opposition presetned in the RAW--and really, that's the only viable yardstick for measuring the balance of someting on the page--I don't think it's overbalanced. Close, but not quite there.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't really agree that it is better than all similar options, though. You're talking about the ability to do something once or twice a day, which requires multiple feats to pull off, and which strips the character of one of his other major class abilities. (Anyone tossing around Divine Metamagic isn't going to have Turns available for much else.)

Is it a good option? Absolutely. And I can see it being broken for certain campaigns, including quite a few that I've run. But assuming the level of magic/treasure/opposition presetned in the RAW--and really, that's the only viable yardstick for measuring the balance of someting on the page--I don't think it's overbalanced. Close, but not quite there.

One feat and you can instant any other metamagic feats you take of your choice once a day unless your Charisma is lower than 14, and maybe twice or three times. Combine with the ability to take at level 1. Its not going to make the cleric supremely more powerful than everyone else by itself, especially since its only usable a few times, but clerics are already quite powerful, and this can exacerbate that.

Its like saying to the cleric "This feat gives you one level 5 spell slot [or two level 3 spell slots] per day at level 1, but you don't know any level 5 spells yet, so you have to use them for metamagic." Considering that the cleric will likely have 2+domain spells each day, this allows the first level cleric to, for instance, empower all of the their spells but one, or unload two-thirds of their daily spells in buffs in a single round. It may not be that much more powerful, but it is still a power boost over any other metamagician.

 

[Mouseferatu]

One feat and you can instant any other metamagic feats you take of your choice once a day unless your Charisma is lower than 14, and maybe twice or three times. Combine with the ability to take at level 1. Its not going to make the cleric supremely more powerful than everyone else by itself, especially since its only usable a few times, but clerics are already quite powerful, and this can exacerbate that.

*blink*

Wait. Maybe I'm not understanding you...

You do know that you have to choose which Metamagic feat Divine Metamagic applies to when you buy the feat, yes? You can't use it to Empower a spell in one battle, and then Quicken a spell in a second battle. You'd have to buy Divine Metamagic twice--once for Empower, and once for Quicken--to do that.

Or maybe you knew that, and I just misunderstood what you wrote. It's entirely possible.

 

[Diirk]

Divine Metamagic + Persistant Spell = broken