D&D 5E [SPOILERS] Out of the Abyss Escape Scenario: To Fudge or not to Fudge?

[Celtavian]

I'm about to run the escape scenario. I'm looking at the math and it's not too favorable to the PCs. A group of unarmed, unarmored players very close to a den of quaggoth, armed and armored drow guards, and giant spider guard dogs expected to escape at level 1 or 2. If I run this scenario as ruthlessly as the character of the drow, I'm not sure they'll survive (at least not all of them).

How are some DMs handling this? Do you plan to fudge a little to let the campaign progress pass the opening chapter or will you let the chips fall where they may even if it leads to the creation of new characters and maybe a continued stay in the prison? Basically, you going to fudge a bit to allow the players to successfully escape or you going to play the drow and their allies like competent prison guards against your unarmed, unarmored players?

 

[aramis erak]

Play the drow as they should be - Overconfident reckless blowhards - and fudging the dice isn't needed.

 

[Celtavian]

Play the drow as they should be - Overconfident reckless blowhards - and fudging the dice isn't needed.

What was your experience running the scenario?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Since I'm violently, rabidly, pathologically anti-fudge, well, my advice should be clear. But being anti-fudge and being anti-change--not the same thing. That is: "fudging" is when you roll a die, and then decide "y'know what, no, that's not what happens." I really, really, really dislike doing that--changing the rules of the fight, whether for or against the players, while it's happening. This isn't the appropriate place to get into why. "Change" is when you deviate from the plan in a way that (a) is consistent--or at least not inconsistent--with the stuff the players already know, and (b) the players COULD conceivably learn, once you change your mind, prior to the actual fight and thus prepare appropriately.

I have a big bugaboo about "making informed choices." Fudging prevents being informed, and subverts choice. Change allows (but doesn't force) players to be informed, and preserves choice--both making it, and dealing with the consequences thereof.

So--don't, please please please don't, "fudge" the combat halfway through to ensure that it goes in the party's favor. But, if you're worried that the fun will come to a crashing halt with an encounter that hasn't happened yet, and you have some ability to tweak it to fit the challenge level you WANT from it--by all means, do so. Preferably also come up with ways that, *if* the players *try* to, they can learn something of the forces they'll face and can plan accordingly. That alone will improve their odds of survival.

 

[CapnZapp]

Play the drow as they should be - Overconfident reckless blowhards - and fudging the dice isn't needed.

This.

My players pickpocketed the key, attacked and killed the drow in the guard tower, armed themselves, chopped off the south rope ladder to the rest of the compound, tricked the drow guards at the north post for a few crucial rounds, then they escaped down a rope into the water north of the webbing while Prince Derendil and Eldeth valiantly held of the Quaggoth servants.

End result: the PCs escaped with a couple NPCs, three Drow dead, Eldeth and Derendil recaptured. Buppido, the twins and the slave Drow weren't even involved, they were out doing hard labor.

No fudging necessary. Obviously it helped tremendously that they didn't try to engage any of the elite warriors or priestesses.

 

[CapnZapp]

Big point: since the characters are very low level, the cost of having to create new ones is as low as can be.

So why not play it out fair and square?

Worst case scenario - they fail, some are recaptured, some even die.

But it's easy to add a Drow Slaver bringing a couple of new "recruits" to Velkynvelve that just happens to be new characters!

If you have mature players that appreciate the challenge, you should not be afraid to have the PCs try more than once before they succeed!

 

[Celtavian]

This.

My players pickpocketed the key, attacked and killed the drow in the guard tower, armed themselves, chopped off the south rope ladder to the rest of the compound, tricked the drow guards at the north post for a few crucial rounds, then they escaped down a rope into the water north of the webbing while Prince Derendil and Eldeth valiantly held of the Quaggoth servants.

End result: the PCs escaped with a couple NPCs, three Drow dead, Eldeth and Derendil recaptured. Buppido, the twins and the slave Drow weren't even involved, they were out doing hard labor.

No fudging necessary. Obviously it helped tremendously that they didn't try to engage any of the elite warriors or priestesses.

So you ran it without any Elite Drow warriors present. There are five elite drow warriors. I figure one or two are on duty at all times and they would move to engage the PCs quickly. What did you do with the guard dog giant spiders? It says there are six giant spiders that descend into the cavern to engage enemies. I'm assuming they can be ordered by the drow to attack the party when they try to escape. Their ability to climb allows for superior mobility to track the players when they are climbing down.

Looking at the map there are three guards in the guard tower (2 drow guards, 1 elite drow guard), two at area 13 the Northern Watch post, 1d4 quaggoths in the quaggoth area at any given time, and six giant spiders around the webs. I'm assuming at least two or three would be near the area where the prisoners try to escape. The way I'm looking at this is the party will be in visible range of 5 drow guards, 1d4 quaggoth, and a few giant spiders ready to deploy against anyone climbing down the wall. Unarmed and unarmored this is a fairly formidable challenge. They do have nearly all the prisoners available for assistance. Maybe if they sacrifice a few, they can avoid an excessive amount of death.

 

[Celtavian]

Big point: since the characters are very low level, the cost of having to create new ones is as low as can be.

So why not play it out fair and square?

Worst case scenario - they fail, some are recaptured, some even die.

But it's easy to add a Drow Slaver bringing a couple of new "recruits" to Velkynvelve that just happens to be new characters!

If you have mature players that appreciate the challenge, you should not be afraid to have the PCs try more than once before they succeed!

The mechanical bits are low cost. I always have my players write up a quality background prior to play. This causes a few of them to get attached to the character during the background creation process. I'd hate to have a situation where I discourage them from writing a quality background due to a quick death from hard starting circumstances. Hopefully they'll be able to handle it because I'm leaning towards keeping it ruthless. I don't like to fudge. I sure would like to know how it went for more than a few people that did not hold back on the drow response to prisoner escape using their spider guard dogs to pursue as well.

 

[CapnZapp]

Celtavian, it is going to be as deadly as you want it to be.

You seem to want to have a discussion "look how deadly it is, I don't want it to be that deadly, but my hands are tied" but I won't bite.

The simple truth is that the escape will be exactly as hard as you the DM makes it.

And more to the point, the corrollary: if the escape is hard it is because you made it hard; if the escape is easy it is because you made it easy.

Since changing stuff from the printed book is utterly trivial and the first thing any seasoned DM will do, I really see no point in having the aforementioned discussion, since it boils down to this dialog:

- "The book makes the escape too hard"
- "Then change it"

 

[CapnZapp]

The mechanical bits are low cost. I always have my players write up a quality background prior to play. This causes a few of them to get attached to the character during the background creation process. I'd hate to have a situation where I discourage them from writing a quality background due to a quick death from hard starting circumstances. Hopefully they'll be able to handle it because I'm leaning towards keeping it ruthless. I don't like to fudge.

You really can't have it both ways.

If you run your games without any kind of plot immunity, level 1 D&D really isn't what you should be playing, Celtavian. Not if your players 1) invest that much and 2) aren't able to cope with losing said investment.

At first level, a moment of bad luck you're down; two and you're out. Even if you did nothing wrong as a player, even if you took no stupid or rash action, even if you played it safe and made smart decisions.

Have you considered asking your players to hold off writing their background stories until they reach level 3? (Or, perhaps more to your liking, simply starting the escape attempt at level 3)

Good luck!