SpyCraft vs Wheel of Time

[Psion]

What Mortaneus said...

 

[Havoc]

I didn't say that it was a bad rendition of WoT, nor was it not a good game. What I meant was that it wasn't anything special as games went. It was just more of the same. Spycraft knocked down the walls and stomped out quite a new bit of territory as far as d20 goes.

In my book, that makes it worthy of a 5.

Humff.
Well you liked it for sure.
WoT boasts a new, and well done magic system; IMHO it is worth our praises just for that - how many really new magic systems are there? I mean really new, not unbalancing, playable?
Do not forget that a magic system is an essential part of a fantasy campaign, so yes it is special.

I read my Spycraft again yesterday after reading opinions in this thread, and I do not see yet what is so amazing, wall down-knocking in there, I fail to see what is so novel in the combat system.
And car chases in a spy game would not occur as often as spell casting in a fantasy world I guess.

But ok it's a matter of preference; I hope that D20 modern will be better, and I will certainly salvage some Spycraft feats and even the chase rules.


What I was saying, when I started this thread, is this: 5 should be an indication that a product deserves your inconditional purchase. It is simply not the case of Spycraft, for me.
WoT, on the other hand, is a complete RPG, which uses D20 nicely to fit a world view, boast a magic system of interest for D&D players, is a nice book just to browse through. I am happy to have it.
The same goes for CoC, Star Wars and most of the WoTC stuff.

But enough of WoT and Spycraft, they were just examples.

My name is not Virginia, neither I am a WoTC employee or representative, yet I really think that few compagnies are able to produce - or have ever produced any - RPG books of the same quality as Wizard's; take for instance the much criticised class books; sure they could have been much better, but then there are also lot of problems in Mongoose ones (which I love), AEG's ones (I like many ideas there); unbalancing stuff, poor editing, terrible art sometimes etc.

I have the luck to be able to spend quite a lot on roleplaying games, but it is not the case for everybody. So, if I have to make a recommandation to someone tight on budget , it would be: buy WoTC D20 stuff first, and then, if you have some cash left, consider buying something else.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

My name is not Virginia

Salutations,

Just to be clear- the Virginia line was not a suggestion at your identity..

It was a refernce to:
Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus

FD

 

[Furn_Darkside]

So, if I have to make a recommandation to someone tight on budget , it would be: buy WoTC D20 stuff first, and then, if you have some cash left, consider buying something else.

My suggestion would be to read the reviews and then ask the opinions on a product here in the forums.

Doing the latter, especially when spelling out what you are interested in, should help you get a really good picture on an item you are considering.

I personally would not suggest standing by WOTC- their published adventures are not as good as those put out by d20 publishers. Their splat books are hit and miss. *shrug*

FD

 

[Havoc]

Salutations,

Just to be clear- the Virginia line was not a suggestion at your identity..

It was a refernce to:
Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus

FD

thanks for the clarification!!!

 

[Psion]

My name is not Virginia,

Like Furn said, it's an expression. Sorry to confuse you.

I really think that few compagnies are able to produce - or have ever produced any - RPG books of the same quality as Wizard's; take for instance the much criticised class books; sure they could have been much better, but then there are also lot of problems in Mongoose ones (which I love), AEG's ones (I like many ideas there); unbalancing stuff, poor editing, terrible art sometimes etc.

I have the luck to be able to spend quite a lot on roleplaying games, but it is not the case for everybody. So, if I have to make a recommandation to someone tight on budget , it would be: buy WoTC D20 stuff first, and then, if you have some cash left, consider buying something else.

Three things:
1) Sure there are publishers worse than WotC. There always will be. But there are some third party publishers that outperform WotC on a frequent basis.

2) WotC isn't quite the performer it used to be. Sure, I rather like the classbooks and think they get a bad rap. But over the last year, they have lost some of their best talent, and it is beginning to show. Deities & Demigods, Stronghold Builders Guidebook... *yawn*.

3) Company is not a sole determiner. There are some wizards products I would recommend over some d20 products, others I would not.

Frex, I would recommend the Book of the Righteous over Deities & Demigods seven days a week and twice on Sundays...

 

[Desdichado]

But ok it's a matter of preference;
[...]
What I was saying, when I started this thread, is this: 5 should be an indication that a product deserves your inconditional purchase.

In making your second point, you seem to have forgotten your first point. Since it is a matter of preference, I don't really see what you're complaining about. There is no objective truth that the Wheel of Time game is better than Spycraft. Even I can say this, and I mostly agree with you -- I love my WoT game, and can't see why I should buy Spycraft when I can get d20 Modern instead. Obviously, some folks think otherwise. I don't see any need to get my panties in a bunch because of that.

And I disagree with your main thesis anyway -- Wizards of the Coast does not necessarily produce superior products to the competition. I admit, they often make prettier products, but not necessarily better ones.

 

[Havoc]

Like Furn said, it's an expression. Sorry to confuse you.

Sorry to have called you "sweetie"

Three things:
1) Sure there are publishers worse than WotC. There always will be. But there are some third party publishers that outperform WotC on a frequent basis.

2) WotC isn't quite the performer it used to be. Sure, I rather like the classbooks and think they get a bad rap. But over the last year, they have lost some of their best talent, and it is beginning to show. Deities & Demigods, Stronghold Builders Guidebook... *yawn*.

3) Company is not a sole determiner. There are some wizards products I would recommend over some d20 products, others I would not.

Frex, I would recommend the Book of the Righteous over Deities & Demigods seven days a week and twice on Sundays...

I would like to put my hands on "the book of the righteous". I've read many positive comments on that book.
I hope the praise it got is better deserved that the 5 you gave to Spycraft .

 

[Havoc]

In making your second point, you seem to have forgotten your first point. Since it is a matter of preference, I don't really see what you're complaining about. There is no objective truth that the Wheel of Time game is better than Spycraft. Even I can say this, and I mostly agree with you -- I love my WoT game, and can't see why I should buy Spycraft when I can get d20 Modern instead. Obviously, some folks think otherwise. I don't see any need to get my panties in a bunch because of that.

And I disagree with your main thesis anyway -- Wizards of the Coast does not necessarily produce superior products to the competition. I admit, they often make prettier products, but not necessarily better ones.

I am not complaining, not really.
Just saying, to make a long story short: WoTC gets unfairly poor reviews, more often than not, especially when compared to other products that are far from perfect.
Theirs are not perfect maybe, but they are the reference.

 

[Mortaneus]

I am not complaining, not really.
Just saying, to make a long story short: WoTC gets unfairly poor reviews, more often than not, especially when compared to other products that are far from perfect.
Theirs are not perfect maybe, but they are the reference.

I think in large part this has to do with the whole idea of them being 'canon'.

If a product is considered canon, that automatically requires a much higher level of quality than anything else out there. Unfortunately, as far as many WotC products go, that simply isn't the case, and thus they get hammered in reviews.