SRD 3.5 Competition

[kreynolds]

Enterprising pdf-ers may want to create several versions, including a print version with minimal graphics, perhaps one with alternating left-right borders for double sided printing, or even a landscape version for online viewing.

Actually, I plan to do this. Once my text is formated in InDesign, it's just a matter of dropping into a new layout, which is fairly easy. Of course, this all depends on time constraints, but I'll give it a shot. Because of this though, I may not go for an HTML entry.

 

[woodelf]

Very light shades only equate to good printing depending upon the printer. On a 600dpi bw laser printer (like my HP LaserJet 6L), very light shades pretty much don't print at all. If they do, they all bleed together, so it's simply best not to have them in the first place (it looks odd, that's why I say that).
[snip]

In short, the quality of really light shades is directly proportional to the printer in question, so that's why I avoid them. About the only light shades I'll use are fleshtones and grays, but even if I use others, I won't use multiples (they tend to bleed together on some printers).

I muddled my thoughts. Oops. I was really talking about two different things, somewhat in opposition, when i referred to "good printing." On the one hand, there's fidelity to the original. For that, full bleeds are bad, and really light or low-contrast is bad. Though i'll point out that my Apple LaserWriter IINT (state-of-the-art '89, IIRC), with just 300dpi B&W (no grayscale) can handle a 10% gray just fine. It may even manage a 5% gray--i can't remember if i've ever tested it. On the other hand, there's the issue of saving ink/toner. *That's* where less is more, period.

Depends on your resolution. At 1024x768, my layout is perfectly readable (to me) on as small as a 17-inch display. At 800x600, its perfectly readable on as small as a 15-inch display (I tested this on my laptop at both resolutions). I didn't need to scroll at all. They look great at fit-width. On the other hand, I like high resolutions, even on small displays, so I'm probably in a minority. *shrug*

WYSIWYG all the way, baby! AFAIC, there is no other resolution.

Well, when I'm reading a doc, whether its in hand or on screen, I want it to be attractive. Otherwise, I'll just buy the book instead of printing it out.

Agreed. I just think that you don't need anything beyond well-set text to make it attractive. This is not to say that i don't love beautiful ornate design when i see it, just that it's not *necessary* for the book to look good and be easy on the eyes. YMMV

 

[kreynolds]

On the one hand, there's fidelity to the original. For that, full bleeds are bad...

That's a little vague. How do you mean?

...and really light or low-contrast is bad.

Yup, but again, this varies by printer.

Though i'll point out that my Apple LaserWriter IINT (state-of-the-art '89, IIRC), with just 300dpi B&W (no grayscale) can handle a 10% gray just fine.

So can a Xerox Phaser 860/8200, and to some extent, a Xerox 6200. Like I said, it varies by printer.

On the other hand, there's the issue of saving ink/toner.

Have you noticed how the printout of The Book of Eldritch Might PDF chews up more toner/ink than the actual printed book from SSS?

Anyhow, that's one of the reasons I'm considering making two different PDFs...one that's attractive and one that's cheap.

*That's* where less is more, period.

Depends on who you ask, period.

WYSIWYG all the way, baby! AFAIC, there is no other resolution.

Are you saying that resolution and display size don't make a difference? If so, then I can't disagree more. My laptop has a 15-inch (maybe 14-inch, now that I think about it, but too lazy to grab a ruler) display, and at 1024x768, I can read my PDF without any difficulty at all. I.E., no squinting.

I just think that you don't need anything beyond well-set text to make it attractive.

I agree, to an extent. Apple's tech docs are mostly nothing but text, and they're quite nice and clean, but they also tend to chew up a _lot_ of white space. Still nice though. However, IMO, you aren't limited to well-set text. There are a lot more options than just that. For a "toner conservative" PDF, then well-set text is all you need, and like I said, I'll do one of those if I have the time.

This is not to say that i don't love beautiful ornate design when i see it, just that it's not *necessary* for the book to look good...

I agree, but that's not the primary look I'm going for, mostly due to the fact that I think you _can_ have an ornate design that is attractive, functional, and can still be easy on the eyes. For example, my current layout is easy on _my_ eyes.

But, don't get the impression that I'm ruling out any other layout. I've been working on several, and just finished a new one last night that I'm pretty fond of so far, but I won't trully know until I drop some text down on it.

 

[Cergorach]

Below the Classes chapter:
http://www.TheHelix.nl/download/SRD v.3.5 Deluxe - Demo.pdf

Couple of notes:
- I'm going to change the chapter intro to something a bit more interesting, probably top centered.
- You'll notice some white space that could have been avoided, but i'm going to keep every chapter on an even pagecount for estatical purposes (every chapter will start on a right handed page).
- No bookmarks, links, index, or table of contents yet.

Any remarks to improve layout are more than welcome.

 

[Conaill]

So, anyone willing to take up my challenge and show us what their Monk class table will look like?

Hmm, problem with a competition like this is that it *discourages* exchange of good layout ideas before the deadline. I applaud Cergorach and kreynolds for sticking their necks out and giving us some peeks at what they're working on, but I fear Drawmack's "don't want anyone else to steal my ideas" attitude is probably a lot more prevalent. Any suggestions on how to encourage more cooperation between the designers?

 

[Marius Delphus]

Any remarks to improve layout are more than welcome.

Awesome work Cergorach (and because I don't own the 3E text/table fonts I am also a mite envious ), I only had the following reactions on a quick scan:

* Balancing columns: When you do have that white space, instead of leaving all of it in Col2, can you even it out a bit between the two? For example, p.7 might look somewhat better if the Col2 text started with the "Turn or Rebuke" entry and p.9 might look better if the Col2 text started with the "Venom Immunity" or "A Thousand Faces" entry. This comment doesn't apply to, say, pp. 4, 11, 13, and 17, where I prefer having the class name headings at the top of the page.

* Your color bars seem to be "missing" the table text (a couple points too high).

* On a (way more) personal, idiosyncratic note, there are eyes staring at me from the top of every page, and that's a little distracting.

* The right-hand page header text is getting just a tad "lost" in the lightest portion of the image, IMO. Would a bit of a drop shadow help?

* That full-bleed header image is going to get cut off left, right, and top on your average office laser printer (where I do most of my printing ). I haven't measured, but I'd suggest making sure the page header and page number were at least 1/4" from the page edges, to be safe.

* Going back to idiosyncracies, I'm not really fond of the right-aligned headings, so I'll mention that *I* think they might look better left-aligned. They're already emphasized 5 ways, after all: size, color, font, all caps, underline. I know, core book look and all, but there it is.

* "Rich baker" and "Dave noonan" need capital letters on p."666."

Don't know about "better" but there's some feedback for ya.

 

[Dimwhit]

I just noticed a small oddity with the SRD. It doesn't actually list the feats a fighter can choose from for his bonus feats. It mentions that he must choose them from a specific list, but that list isn't mentioned. I wonder why...

 

[HellHound]

* That full-bleed header image is going to get cut off left, right, and top on your average office laser printer (where I do most of my printing ). I haven't measured, but I'd suggest making sure the page header and page number were at least 1/4" from the page edges, to be safe.

When printing, click the 'Fit to Page' option and there is no problem with full-bleed PDFs.

Making a PDF with border graphics that are not full bleed looks awkward and ugly on screen, generally.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Ah yes... that doesn't appear to work correctly in my copy of Acrobat 5 because the page size is 8.5 x 11 (the "correct" size, so no scaling). It does, however, work in my copy of Acrobat Reader 6, so I retract the comment.

I agree about the onscreen look of a margin. I was going to suggest a paper size of 8 x 10.5, but it's a bit moot now. Carry on!

 

[Cergorach]

I just noticed a small oddity with the SRD. It doesn't actually list the feats a fighter can choose from for his bonus feats. It mentions that he must choose them from a specific list, but that list isn't mentioned. I wonder why...

The list can be compiled from the feats themselves, it's noted under special. I'm not making any additions to the SRD, the reason is that i first want a document that is SRD only and can be usefull to publishers as well (so they don't have to worry about is this in the srd). I do intend to make a fully useable rulebook, but that's down the road...