Stagnation in RPG

[herald]

After reading all the posts I feel kinda bad... It's seems to me there are always those that cannot accept another opinion than their own. Contribute comments (for good or for bad) but don't just hit on a post(er) just because he/she sees things diferently.

As I stated in my previous post : I HAVE FUN WITH EVERY STYLE OF RPG
And would like to add that there's other forms of RPG : boardgame rpg (thinking about DnD Boardgame and WarhammerQuest) and computer RPG and I like them as well.

The point is: you have to find a group of people with the same mindset, a group that want's to enjoy an activity based on a set of agreements (that may or may not comprise rules) that everybody agree's to. I know people who's only pleasure in RPG's is min/maxing characters and finding way's to break the rules of any giving game. I have no problem with that whatsoever... I'd even call these the RPG hackers. If they enjoy it let them. If somebody prefers to "act" RPG's and can find a group of likeminded people, all the more fun to them!

And that's all well and good, but the original poster identified folks that he (or she) games with as lowlifes. And while I'm sure that they meant it all in jest, I feel that it's safe to assume that we can let loose with are own commentary however we see fit. I don't really see how anyone here is really beating him up really.

It seems that Storm Gorm is looking for a more immersive fantasy game. And that's fine. For a while I was a Vampire player and Storyteller, and I tried to incorporate all I could to make the game as expansive and immersive as possible. But being rules lite is not as easy as one thinks.

IMHO, all RPG's are pumped up versions of "Let's Pretend". There are many differant genres of Let's Pretend. There is cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, space monsters and astronauts, knights and dragons, ect, ect.

But as a kid, the trick was that not everybody had the same expectations on how it worked, true, you could argue it out.

I shot you!
No you didn't, you missed!
Yes I did! Your dead!
You couldn't shoot me, I'm behind a shed!
I can shoot through a shed!
That's no fair, you can't even see me!

So rules are created to make sure that everone is playing on the same page so to speak. Now granted, it prevents some creativity,...

I shot you!
You can't shoot me, I have a force field up.
What do you mean you have a foce field up, you're a dragon!
Look whos talking, you have a gun and your only a knight.

But at least you have a expectation of what can happen and what can't.

And so RPG's have rules. By having expectations in some form, it allows people to be able to play in the same imaginary space together.

 

[Flyspeck23]

I want not to reflect a strengths and weaknesses of a "character" with numbers, and then playing with these numbers, adding and subtracting some dice results - THIS has NOTHING to do with RPG. The very idea of ever having to do a "diplomacy check" is crazy, horribly destructive!

THIS is YOUR opinion, not mine. Simple as that. Writing in caps doesn't grant your statement a more universal appeal.

That said, I've had more than enough arguments about "ROLEplaying, not ROLLplaying" (or "RULEplaying", for that matter), "the diplomacy skill is our doom" and "you try to swim in lava and you'll die, no matter what". You know what? These arguments are pretty pointless, because different people enjoy different styles (btw, that's why there's more than one RPG system out there).

Play the way you enjoy it, with whomever you like and who shares the same views as you. But please: stop preaching. You won't convert a single player to your cause that way.
Invite people to your games and show 'em. (It seems this didn't work with your "so-called friends", though.)

 

[maddman75]

As for social skills, I use them to enhance RP, not to supplant it. A diplomacy roll reflects those unspoken things such as body language that is seperate from the player. You still have to role play whatever you are doing! I use it the same was I used Charisma checks in AD&D. Only now one's character can choose to specialize in that kind of thing.

D&D is very much a hybrid game. While it certainly can be used and has great potential for heavy role play, it also has roots in wargaming and tactics. It allows for skills-based customizations while still preserving archetypes and protecting niches. It allows you to emphasize or de-emphasize whatever parts of the game you want.

If you want a more rules-light system, I'd recommend the Cinematic Unisystem, the system used in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. Soon to be released also is Army of Darkness and Beyond Human, which will be a sort of universal book as I understand it. The system is very light, easy to play and use, and sort of falls into the background. Give it a look, it sounds like it may be your cup of tea.

 

[Tsyr]

As for social skills, I use them to enhance RP, not to supplant it. A diplomacy roll reflects those unspoken things such as body language that is seperate from the player. You still have to role play whatever you are doing!

You know, every time I see those comments, I always wonder...

Do you let people who can't sing or play instruments play bards?

 

[Flyspeck23]

You know, every time I see those comments, I always wonder...

Do you let people who can't sing or play instruments play bards?

Or a "weakling" an able fighter? Or a guy who can't hit anything while playing dart an archer? Or an atheist a paladin? Or...

 

[Tsyr]

Or a "weakling" an able fighter? Or a guy who can't hit anything while playing dart an archer? Or an atheist a paladin? Or...

I use the bard question because it's a very similar question... Singing a song is no different, conceptualy, from making a speach... Some people are good at it, some aren't, some people feel comfortable doing it, some don't, and it uses your vocal cords.

It's basicly just a different type of social roll.

 

[maddman75]

Lets just say I take that into account when setting DCs . If one of my players whos in amatuer theatre makes a moving speech, his DC is much higher than if one of the wallflowers does it. I couldn't imagine running a game with no roleplaying, where all interaction was about rolling Diplomacy, Bluff, or some other skill. Is that what you're saying? Because if so why bother playing an RPG at all? May as well play the mini game or something.

Maybe I'm not getting how you do things.

 

[Tsyr]

Lets just say I take that into account when setting DCs . If one of my players whos in amatuer theatre makes a moving speech, his DC is much higher than if one of the wallflowers does it. I couldn't imagine running a game with no roleplaying, where all interaction was about rolling Diplomacy, Bluff, or some other skill. Is that what you're saying? Because if so why bother playing an RPG at all? May as well play the mini game or something.

Maybe I'm not getting how you do things.

Just as I have no expectation that my fighter's player will have any clue how to actually use a sword, or my wizard's player to have any occult knowledge, I don't expect my bard's player to be able to sing, or my rogues's player to be suave and smooth-talking just because his character is.

Roleplay to the best of your ability. But if your ability is really, really low... so be it. I'm not gonna penalize you if your shy or clumsy with words (Myself, I'm a great speechgiver... but really really bad at comming up with stuff to say on a moments notice).

In short, the players the CAN give speaches do (Even if I don't require it or give mechanical modifers for it), and the players that don't do what they can. Same with the person who describes in intricate detail their sword swing verses the person that says "I attack". You still roll the same die.

 

[Dogbrain]

If only i could get some players that realized that playing AGAINST the storyteller is fighting the story, if only i could meet other people that got the idea of roleplaying being about roles and story, about playing out an act, not competing in a game. Please, say that im not alone!

You must have a hard time getting through doorways mounted upon such a tall equine. That whole wannabe author schtick is so tired it needs bunny jammies and a teddy bear. If you want to tell a story then TELL A STORY, don't railroad some hapless schmucks into merely being combined window dressing and sycophantic audience. If you want to be an actor--GO TO THE STAGE! There are community theatre troupes all over the place, or found one, yourself.

But don't come along and tell the rest of us poor peones that we don't "get the idea" merely because we disagree about what "the idea" is. Prove, and prove rigorously that your idiosyncratic interpretation of "the idea" is and must be the only "the idea" regarding roleplaying.

 

[herald]

Actually giving a rousing speach is much like coming up with a brilliant battle plan. Sometimes someone comes up with something so good that you have to skip the known rules and go with it. But even then there are somethings to take into account.

Just because you give a rousing speach doesn't mean that it will work. maybe the NPC doesn't speak the language. Has been bred to hate your race, ect, ect.

I have played with actors on plenty of times, and let me tell you, they don't always have the right thing to say all the time. And many times, the non-actor players can't make it up on the fly as well.

On the other hand. RPGs are an abstract representation of life. Characters (usually) aren't the players. Characters often have strengths and weaknesses that are quite differant than theur players as well.

So, if you made your charisma you lowest stat and you expect to deliver the Gettysburg Address, chances are your character is not expressing it as well as he hoped.

Not that there couldn't be times that a low charisma character do or say something that truely moves someone else. But if have a low Intellegence and Charisma stats, you shouldn't act like a con-man.

So sometimes depending on the adventure, the players should wing it, especially if it furthers the goal of the GM/DM/Storyteller. On the other hand, sometimes it's good to invenst those skill points and stat bonuses, they may pull your bacon out of the fire if you can't be as witty as Shakesphere.