Stagnation in RPG

[Dogbrain]

If there was no dice rolling, there'd be no element of chance. No chance means no risk. No risk means no sense of accomplishment.

Obviously, you speak from ignorance. While my preference runs to using randomizers in games, I've played in non-randomizer games, and they can work. There can be risk. The problem is that this method magnifies the GM effect monumentally. Geniuses shine even more. Mediocre minds do miserably.

You have had a very limited gaming life with very little exposure to different ways of doing things. From this, you try to invent universal principles.

As I once said to a professor: That Kant could not imagine space with more than three dimensions says far more about the limits of Kant's imagination than it does about the necessary limits of how the universe must work.

 

[herald]

Obviously, you speak from ignorance. While my preference runs to using randomizers in games, I've played in non-randomizer games, and they can work. There can be risk. The problem is that this method magnifies the GM effect monumentally. Geniuses shine even more. Mediocre minds do miserably.

You have had a very limited gaming life with very little exposure to different ways of doing things. From this, you try to invent universal principles.

As I once said to a professor: That Kant could not imagine space with more than three dimensions says far more about the limits of Kant's imagination than it does about the necessary limits of how the universe must work.

Wow, your making friends left and right here.

There is now way you could know that he speaks from ignorance. You must be jumping to a conclusion. And since it is the only conclusion you draw from his opinion, I must take it that you too have a limited imagination.

 

[Henry]

Hi, guys and gals.

(moderator mode)

Let's not get into assumptions and icky-poo-badness thoughts.

(/moderator mode)


Boy, I need to stop reading Nodwick.

 

[herald]

Hi, guys and gals.

(moderator mode)

Let's not get into assumptions and icky-poo-badness thoughts.

(/moderator mode)


Boy, I need to stop reading Nodwick.

Sorry...

 

[diaglo]

(moderator mode)

Let's not get into assumptions and icky-poo-badness thoughts.

(/moderator mode)

can we make assuuuus instead. just make an ass out of u.

 

[herald]

can we make assuuuus instead. just make an ass out of u.

I can hear Bennie Hill rolling over in his grave right now...

 

[Nightfall]

Sorry Gorm. I don't agree. I already get my stories done with in the confines of some of those things you don't like. Now I don't use minis, I rarely do wargames. But classes, vancian magic systems, and other aspects of D&D so far work fine in creating some memorable campaign/stories for me.

 

[Storm Gorm]

First off, i must apologize for my much too short and inaccurate first message. I was a bit blunt, and please let me start over, with more or less a blankened sheet.

Second off, i intend to answer every single interesting point made in this suddenly extremely long thread - which will take a while, and ill split it into parts. By the way, overwhelming response! Ive been shocked a day now, unable to answer sensibly.



Tsyr said: "Or better yet, join a community theater program."

As fun as it may be only to act, separated from all the other components of good roleplaying, i like the whole. To act out a set script is too small a scope, besides, im dont want to play roles to impress spectators, i want to to inspire myself, to impress myself.

Tsyr said: "No, you know what? I had a post almost typed, but forget it. This arguement has been hashed out more than once on here. There are people that agree with you and people that dont. The two sides have never seen eye to eye yet, and I doubt this time will be any different."

I know im not alone fighting this cause, even though i requested this to be confirmed in my first message. But its not like im trying to wage a war against you and "your people" (the oldschoolers, the frameworkers etc.). I dont want all rights reserved for the title of "roleplay", i just want you to see that there is more than one way to play one. More of a variety than you might like to accept. But please do, every option has its advantages. I dont understand what you mean by "the two sides have never seen eye to eye yet", please explain.

Wormwood said: I'd like to reply, but I'm too low a level to handle CR5.

This needed repeating due to hilariousity.

Gospog said (almost): "May I reccomend Inspectres or octaNe, Savage Worlds and Baron Munchaussen"

GREAT, thanks a lot! The memento-mori games were very promising, i liked the author. May I repay you with a recommendation of my own, being "Children of Fire" and "Children of Clay". I dont know how widely known they are, maybe im the only one who just recently found it.

drakhe said: "I agree that the ultimate roleplaying should not need dice. Problem is: there are occasions where a decision has to be made"

I hope i didnt give anyone the impression that i wished to get rid of dice! Because i have no problems whatsoever with dice. In a story that is currently being made and told at the same time, there are (as far as i can see) no better way of resolution. What i AM against, is the distraction the massivity of the rules impose on the actual goal of RPG, which is, i cant help repeating myself: the Story. Rulebooks, miniatures and yes, the very principle of the character sheet (reflecting a personality with numbers and mechanics [RPG and the Mirror of Nature?])

drake said: "The main problem with this kind of play is that you need a group of people that can pull it off"

This is no argument against playing this kind of play. In fact, its almost hinting that this "way" is somehow more sophisticated.

Zappo said: "On the chance of this being a troll" and "I don't get the correlation between diplomacy checks and competing against the storyteller"

Its not, its just poorly written. I dont believe i presented a correlation between the problem of rules-communication and GM-players relationship, they are quite seperate, but both significant problems. I am very interested in your arguments for rules of social interaction not impeding roleplaying, please post them, but perhaps in another thread? I am beginning to realize that this topic almost needs a forum of its own, theres way too much to discuss.

Wippit Guud said: "In our group, we go even further than that. We're so intuned to the game, that we don't even talk!"

Amusing. However, you do not wound my perspective, you do not even touch it.

Tsyr said: "it's a question of justified expectations"

Great point. But d20 and D&D dominate the RPG world, at least the world of the newbies (like me perhaps. Gradually breaking out of that cage nowadays though). So maybe the greatest response i could hope to get is something like Gospogs', some tips for where i can find material for my preferences. It might not be all that fruitful to put our opinions to battle after all.



Now well, i have to take a coffee break.

 

[Desdichado]

Sorry, i tend to get a little dramatic and excited about this subject - but until now ive only vented it around my so-called friends (which i have dismissed for being gaming lowlifes) - now I want to hear your opinion.

Now, that's completely untrue. I recall your venting here on these boards in the d20 games forum, I believe, just a few months ago. On the same subject, naturally. In fact, right here is the thread.

Or does this somehow not make you a troll?

 

[Desdichado]

Obviously, you speak from ignorance. While my preference runs to using randomizers in games, I've played in non-randomizer games, and they can work. There can be risk. The problem is that this method magnifies the GM effect monumentally. Geniuses shine even more. Mediocre minds do miserably.

You have had a very limited gaming life with very little exposure to different ways of doing things. From this, you try to invent universal principles.

As I once said to a professor: That Kant could not imagine space with more than three dimensions says far more about the limits of Kant's imagination than it does about the necessary limits of how the universe must work.

That's not the same thing, and if you don't know it, your reading comprehension is lower than I figgered. That's not chance or risk except for GM arbitrariness.