Stalker0's Alternate Core Skill Challenge System: FINAL VERSION 1.8!

[vagabundo]

From my quick read through: very nice system.

Get it playtested, a lot (shake out those hidden bugs) and you could publish a nice PDF with a few fleshed out skill challenges. Seriously.

I like the simple fix mentioned above and may run with it, for the moment, until I get a feel for skill challenges.

 

[banana]

The Nuts and Bolts of Version 1.56) In general I like to keep things simple. I like what you’ve done here, but I want something a little simpler. What can I take from your system and still make it work?
This is a list of mechanics in the order of highest priority (must keep) to lowest priority (useful, but can do without).

Highest
1) Complexity Table
2) Skill DC Table
3) All skill challenges are medium. Sorry, it’s nonnegotiable for this system.
Medium
1) Bold Recovery
2) Time of Trials
3) Aid Another
Low
1) Heroic Surge
2) Bold Opening
3) Critical Success
4) Flawless Victory
5) Bold and Aid Flags on Skills.

I really like what you've done here, both in recognising the original problems with skill challenges and in coming up with some solutions. As a GM, I'd like to use some aspects of your system. However, I don't really want to make changes/houserules that players have to know about - I don't want to have quantities of 'required reading' other than the PHB.

If I was to take just the Highest priority stuff, that would be fine - there would be no player-visible changes. I was just wondering, how well does this work in theory? Have you done any models of how your DCs and complexities affect the maths without the other changes? Does it still provide a useful improvement over the original system?

 

[FunkBGR]

I'd have to second the complexity - I don't think I could run this without referring to a cheat sheet or my computer.

That said, it does look good mechanics-wise.

I think if you could come up with some happy medium that keeps close to those numbers, but without going over (i.e. Easy = level +13, Medium = level +17, Hard = level +22), I'd be more apt to use it. Just something streamlined.

Keep up the good work!

 

[mrphoenix]

I like your system, but i think something "simpler" would be more useful for most players.
I think i will use your 1.0 system, this is a little bit too complex for my taste.

 

[Stalker0]

Your voices have been heard!

I have just changed the system to Version 1.6. I cleaned up the little extra mechanics that were mainly there to spruce it up. I cleaned up the organization, cleaned out the flavor text so its easier to read, and tried to make the mechanics more readable. I also added an example challenge.

For those who though the system looked too complex, check it out now.

 

[Dayspire]

I like, I like!

One thing off the top of my head. I really like that there is an increasing difficulty for Aiding Another (albeit still easy). But - the "Aid Another" game mechanic always is against DC 10. Perhaps it might reduce confusion if your mechanic is called something else? "Helpful Hand", perhaps?

 

[gonesailing]

Overall I like it. I like that it is pretty easy to create a Skill challenge with it and if the math works out that it is intuitive that is fantastic!!
Some questions and then some comments:

1 - How will this combine with Combat Encounters do you think. Will a Level 3-4 Skill Challenge be a replacement for a level 4 monster?

2 - XP awards are unmentioned in your synopsis. See above question?

3 - Your target percentage is 80% Party Win Rate from what I see. What effect will +/- 1 or 2 to the DCs do to the Party Win Rate?

4 - What effect will DM awards of +/- 2 have on the mechanic? For plus I would think it would be equivalent to Aid another, but what if it is on top of Aid.

Now for the comments:
I think the presentation of the System still leaves a little to be desired. But you did most of the Hard work, so let one of us take a crack at that.

It needs Playtesting!

Your Skill Challenge example doesn't really highlight the system. Try this one and give me your opinions

Edit...Oops wrong attachment. I will fix it tommorrow when I get to work. This is just the template I made for myself

 

[Harr]

I just found this (some notice in the 1.0 thread would be nice for people who bookmarked it, as I did) and will run version 1.6 through a few hoops on Sunday. I agree with the crowd's voice that 1.5 was way too fiddly (going by the look of that second post.. whew), and if it had not been ported over 1.6 I would've been sticking with 1.0 (which I think works just great btw).

Anyway, I'll be back here on Monday with a nice play report most likely. Thanks for all this hard work Stalker, you're improving D&D games all over the place I'm sure (at least a twice-weekly down here in Caracas owes you one )

 

[Fieari]

Can you post the 1.5 stuff you removed again? I never got to see it in the first place...

 

[Harr]

I'll have to see how it plays out, but it is a lot more book keeping and a lot less transparency to the players. My impression of the stock system is that players never really know how many successes they have or are trying to get, with this system that is vital information which in my opinion pulls them out of the game.

Hm, not to come off pedantic but I believe you mean a lot MORE transparency to the players. When a system is transparent, that means its inner workings are freely observable to everybody (hence the term 'transparent', ie, 'you can look inside').

If you want to keep the players from knowing the rules, I believe you are looking for a LESS transparent, more 'obscured' system.

By the way I run my games with 100% transparency, which is to say the players are aware of every single rule in play, every DC, every complexity, and every die is rolled in the open in front of everyone including mine. If you think that pulls players out of the game, think again. Nothing creates engagement like the knowledge that it's all out on the table and it really could go either way. This is not my opinion but my experience. I really recommend you try it.

But anyway, I don't mean to derail the thread, just pointing out that when you say 'transparency' as 4e undesrtands it, Stalker0's system fully promotes and eases full transparency rather than hinder it.

PS, I have posted a play-test result of the 1.0 system for anyone interested in how that system served us in our game. Here it is (contains spoilers for KotS).