Standing in the way of technology

[willpax]

Other factors to consider would be the metaphysical, social, and historical contexts.

Metaphysically, you might ensure some conflict by having higher (steam era) technology and magic act as a zero-sum game: the more pervasive technology (and technological thinking) becomes, the less powerful magic is, and vice versa. So anyone with a vested interest in magic would eventually come to see technology as a hostile force. Such a metaphysic would also provide a powerful incentive on the part of the magical partisans to "nip it in the bud," so to speak.

The alliances and factions involved in the struggle would depend on the social context of magic and technology. Was magic the provnce of the few, used only for the benefit of an elite? If that is the case then magic user have no natural constituency and may be forced to adopt hit-and-run tactics. On the other hand, magic might be used altruistically, leading the masses to feel that their way of life is being threatened by the loud machines and disturbing theories of the nation next door. This would vary from society to society.

You might also try to flesh out your historical context--technology more often exacerbates old conlficts rather than starts new ones. Rather than have all societies determined by their attitude toward technology, you may want to have several other factors that lead to unstable alliances of varying degrees. Think about World War II--the Soviets, the British, and the Americans were all allied in their opposition to fascism, but that didn't make them the best of friends. At the very least, good versus evil probably won't be made irrelevant by technology--just create more complicated alliances by providing another way that good people could legitimately differ.

This sounds like a very interesting idea.

 

[Limper]

Lets not forget that the side with the factories and Tech would also have magic... so the vermin horde dies from Cloud Kill and the Druids now have to deal with the counter strike.

I agree with SD Magic vs Tech and Magic is a more likely outcome.

 

[Nifft]

In my homebrew, magic has intelligence. The higher the level of the spell, the smarter the spell is. Since magic is real, just as real as alchemy, no-one would think of NOT using it in "technology" -- just as no-one would consider farming for food without the benefit of a local Druid, or in our world no-one would consider doing engineering without calculus.

Given that basis, it's easy to see where "magic technology" leads -- to an actual (not metaphorical) Dr. Frankenstein's monster. Since the magic itself is intelligent, all automation has an intellect and personality.

Now, while making cars might seem like an easy task, they're not really any better than horses -- in fact, horses can't be dispelled, so most people who aren't going into war stick with horses.

-- Nifft

 

[Sagan Darkside]

With the exception of the Halflings and Dwarves, this sounds almost identical to the first IR.

Ehh, I avoid those like the plagues.

But I don't see why Good Dragons side with the elves. What if some peasants blew a Red Dragon out of the sky with a cannon?

Well, I see elves and dragons as the two long living races. That might create a bond of some sort. The good dragons may not be against tech, but they might turn against the tactics of the technological side.

As for the peasant- it depends on how species-centric a dragon is going to be in such a situation. Sure, the gold dragon may not like the red dragon- but to have a human kill a dragon? That is going to far.

And I still don't buy the "All elves are tree-huggers" idea. City-dwelling elves aren't unheard of in most (AFAIK) campaign worlds. In one of my own Homebrews, I had Elves as human-like city builders, and had western humans be the hippies.

Well, I am not telling you what to do in your campeign. I am just tossing out ideas.

IMC, I don't like large populations of elves. It strikes me as contrary to their life span. Granted, I change my races in every campeign, but generally speaking- the longer a race lives.. the less children it tends to have during it lifetime. Why? Well, because humans irl act like that- and I extend it to the elves.

YMMV
SD

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Metaphysically, you might ensure some conflict by having higher (steam era) technology and magic act as a zero-sum game: the more pervasive technology (and technological thinking) becomes, the less powerful magic is, and vice versa. So anyone with a vested interest in magic would eventually come to see technology as a hostile force. Such a metaphysic would also provide a powerful incentive on the part of the magical partisans to "nip it in the bud," so to speak.

While the idea appeals to me, I think I would make that something the elves claim- but have no evidence of being true. If it is obvious, then motivations possibly become too easily figured out.

I also like to think about the long term implications of either side winning.

Technology: Half a world ruined due to tactics, but a partnership of magic and technology is slowly making social progress. Elves have disappeared and are thought to be extinct. Perhaps the moon has turned green. (The elves have moved there- haha)

Nature: Biotopia retakes the world- cities crumble under vines and lichens. Elven crafted spores have wiped out most of the other races- those immune now live with dwarves .. still slowly developing technology to get those pesky tree huggers.

SD

 

[Sixchan]

Well, I see elves and dragons as the two long living races. That might create a bond of some sort. The good dragons may not be against tech, but they might turn against the tactics of the technological side.

Well, maybe, but from what I can see here, the only way this ends in war is if the elves and druids start it.

As for the peasant- it depends on how species-centric a dragon is going to be in such a situation. Sure, the gold dragon may not like the red dragon- but to have a human kill a dragon? That is going to far.

In my Experience, PCs can kill a lot of evil dragons and keep on the good side of the good dragons, even if (or perhaps because) they could kill Bahamut in one hit. Also, if someone had the power to destroy you, would you really want to be their enemy? Burning a Human Settlement is a sure fire way to get Epic Humans knocking on the door to your lair with their +10 handgonnes. And it would be an evil act, and metallic dragons don't do evil acts, AFAIK.

Well, I am not telling you what to do in your campeign. I am just tossing out ideas.

Of Course.

IMC, I don't like large populations of elves. It strikes me as contrary to their life span. Granted, I change my races in every campeign, but generally speaking- the longer a race lives.. the less children it tends to have during it lifetime. Why? Well, because humans irl act like that- and I extend it to the elves.

If there isn't large populations of Elves, it won't be much of a war...unless said elves are pretty much all high-level NPCs (which they probably are, anyway...

 

[Sagan Darkside]

In my Experience, PCs can kill a lot of evil dragons and keep on the good side of the good dragons, even if (or perhaps because) they could kill Bahamut in one hit. Also, if someone had the power to destroy you, would you really want to be their enemy? Burning a Human Settlement is a sure fire way to get Epic Humans knocking on the door to your lair with their +10 handgonnes. And it would be an evil act, and metallic dragons don't do evil acts, AFAIK.

You are probably correct. I am allowing my own pro-dragon bias to color my judgement. heh.

I just see events in the real world where people get very ethnocentric in defense of their own. Whatever their "own" is- race, fellow city/state/country citizens, or even profession. It does not matter if the one of their own deserved being mistreated- if the mistreating was being done by a member of a different group.. that is the issue.

When I see huge ancient monsters, I suspect that mentality grows dramatically.

If there isn't large populations of Elves, it won't be much of a war...unless said elves are pretty much all high-level NPCs (which they probably are, anyway...

I am not seeing a large battle kind of war resulting from this kind of conflict. It would probably not take that long if it was- I am thinking it would take the form of skirmishes and small conflicts. While the technology-side may be unified against the nature side- it may not be enough for them to come together in one unified force.

When you live a long time- why fight openly. Take your time and widdle your enemies away.

SD

 

[durath]

keep this in mind

This relates to the case I am specifiaclly in.

The elves by the vast majority do live in the forests and shun cities and such. Also the other races of this world are all expansionistic while the elves are fighting to maintian what they have. They just don't want their pristine beautiful world befowled as countless others have.

SO the fight might be brought to the elves if the humans, with their new shiny tech weapons, decide they want more elven lands.

Also, as Limper pointed out both sides have magic but only one wants tech. Would that make it impossible to win for the elves since they shun tech? I think not.

I think the elves could rally all(or at least a majority) magical creatures(fey, dragons etc) and other humanoids even that fear or loathe tech to their cause.

Also how would technology even get out of its infancy if the elves(and their allies) where on the lookout for its development and actively tried to wipe it out?

My DM is gonna love all these ideas for the world. You guys rock!!!!

 

[Limper]

Tech was out of its infancy the day the wheel was born... the day the first lever was used... Tech is about tools, the search for better tools by which to do the tasks which life requires of us, thus freeing up you time to do other things, things you enjoy.

I'm not so sure elves wouldn't buy into this are you?

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I'm not so sure elves wouldn't buy into this are you?

I think the point is that in this case elves don't buy into this. I suspect we all could come up with idea for elves to be all for technology.

SD