Standing in the way of technology

[s/LaSH]

But I wasn't aware there were evil metallics, since metallics are, by definition, good dragons.

Gah. It does say 'always' under alignment. And, depending on the population density, there might not be enough metallics for even a single statistic to turn evil.

Then again, a metallic dragon doesn't have to be evil to attack dragonslayers... it's not typical fantasy fare, but imagine a world where draconian society was just as tight as human society. People don't care why the guy was ripped to pieces by monsters, they want the monsters dead. What if dragons were the same way? (There's a slight tendency in that direction in my campaign. Come to think of it, you'd be surprised at the draconian combat that's occured so far... but it's a twist in the comic, so I won't reveal aught.)

(To be honest, my mind wasn't in the post and I misread 'metallic'.)

 

[Sixchan]

Gah. It does say 'always' under alignment. And, depending on the population density, there might not be enough metallics for even a single statistic to turn evil.

Then again, a metallic dragon doesn't have to be evil to attack dragonslayers... it's not typical fantasy fare, but imagine a world where draconian society was just as tight as human society. People don't care why the guy was ripped to pieces by monsters, they want the monsters dead. What if dragons were the same way? (There's a slight tendency in that direction in my campaign. Come to think of it, you'd be surprised at the draconian combat that's occured so far... but it's a twist in the comic, so I won't reveal aught.)

(To be honest, my mind wasn't in the post and I misread 'metallic'.)

True, it doesn't have to be evil to attack dragonslayers (although I don't thin it would if the dead dragon in question was chromatic), but it does have to be evil to burn down an entire settlement because a dragonslayer lives there.

 

[DDK]

Magic and Monsters

I think it's fairly obvious that magic and the plethora of dangers that are ever present in a fantasy gaming world are more than enough justification to limit technological advancements.

I mean, how do you advance a civilization when there is a) no need to, and b) constant strife?

There is no real need to advance medical technology or military technology since magic more than makes up for any of these. Why invest time, money and effort into developing gunpowder when you can invest a hundreth of the resources in training a 1st level mage who has access to magic missile? It only takes a 5th level caster to make a wand of magic missiles and anyone with a personality and a bit of training (1 level in rogue or bard, 1 level in wizard or sorcerer) can use it. The same goes for medical technology. If the majority of people are supposedly 1st level commoners, then a wand of cure light wounds is abundantly sufficient to cure most major injury cases.

Of course, due to limited resources from constant war and death by all the lurking monsters and humanoid tribes and armies, it's no wonder that nobody has been able to afford to mass produce such items and train people. Who would you train anyway? Hundreds of clerics are hardly roaming around the countryside twiddling their thumbs and waiting to be employed at a hospital.

I honestly think this is a no-brainer. Any argument you can come up with to say that there should be technological advancement can be shot down with those two arguments. Magic and monsters.

 

[Sixchan]

Re: Magic and Monsters

I think it's fairly obvious that magic and the plethora of dangers that are ever present in a fantasy gaming world are more than enough justification to limit technological advancements.

I mean, how do you advance a civilization when there is a) no need to, and b) constant strife?

Ever see that Honda advert where they talk about the word 'OK'? Earth's OK, why go to the moon? Just because there is no need doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Granted, it happens MUCH slower, but it'll still happen, IMHO.

There is no real need to advance medical technology or military technology since magic more than makes up for any of these. Why invest time, money and effort into developing gunpowder when you can invest a hundreth of the resources in training a 1st level mage who has access to magic missile?

Because a lot of commoners don't have 11 for intelligence, and so can't cast Magic Missle should there be a war.

It only takes a 5th level caster to make a wand of magic missiles and anyone with a personality and a bit of training (1 level in rogue or bard, 1 level in wizard or sorcerer) can use it. The same goes for medical technology. If the majority of people are supposedly 1st level commoners, then a wand of cure light wounds is abundantly sufficient to cure most major injury cases.

Again, since most people are 1st level commoners, they can't go around tossing out Magic Missles constantly. Although I'll concede the point on Medicine.

Of course, due to limited resources from constant war and death by all the lurking monsters and humanoid tribes and armies, it's no wonder that nobody has been able to afford to mass produce such items and train people. Who would you train anyway? Hundreds of clerics are hardly roaming around the countryside twiddling their thumbs and waiting to be employed at a hospital.

I honestly think this is a no-brainer. Any argument you can come up with to say that there should be technological advancement can be shot down with those two arguments. Magic and monsters.

So if magic and monsters are so good at stopping technology, I don't see how Civilization would likely get to the Bronze Age, much less get past it. Besides, as you said, mages aren't going round passing out Wands, and Clerics aren't moving about dishing out free healing spells (not most of them, anyway). And not all peasants have the ability to cast light when it gets dark. And if you're in FR, there are the Clerics of Gond, who already have smokepowder weapons and will get there eventually. AND, all it really takes is for someone from an advanced world with a knowledge of technology to planeshift into a campaign world and draw up schematics for how electricity works.

 

[DDK]

Be warned foolish mortal!

WotC touched on this topic in their old "Greyhawk 2000" article.

Ack! Shhh! Be vewy, vewy quiet... else you'll awaken... the CyberZombie

 

[DDK]

Re: Re: Magic and Monsters

Ever see that Honda advert where they talk about the word 'OK'? Earth's OK, why go to the moon? Just because there is no need doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Granted, it happens MUCH slower, but it'll still happen, IMHO.

Actually, there were some pretty hefty reasons for going to the moon. Damn commies and their intercontinental space missiles piloted by monkeys and dogs!

So if magic and monsters are so good at stopping technology, I don't see how Civilization would likely get to the Bronze Age, much less get past it.

Eh, I'm not arguing absolutes here. I'm just saying, there's little point to this debate because at the end of the day, there's more than enough justification to have things however the heck yah want 'em.

No printing press? Damn them clerics and their hegemony! Amaneunsis and those damn monks have a lot to answer for!

Want gunpowder in your world? Fine... what's stopping you? That magic missile? Bah, any old commoner with a finger can light a fuse...

At the end of the day, I say either don't bother explaining it, or if you're going to, there are tons of reasons for having it however you want; use 'em to your advantage.

The example of the space race is a good one, actually. The space race was incredibly political, and carried and curried the fears of nations. Yet, at the same time, it was really little more than a pissing contest.

 

[Sixchan]

Well, I can't fault that. Agreed.

 

[s/LaSH]

This might be a little off topic, so bear with me, it's quick.

I checked the DMG. Apparently, using an Orb of Dragonkind earns eternal enmity of all dragonkind for the user, indicating that there is unsuspected solidarity amongst dragons of any skin type.

I don't know if this supports draconian crusades against dragonslayers, but it's one more reason in my book.

Anyway, that's just me. Like Fourecks says, it's all up to preference. I just think that the logical preference is somewhere between the ease of use of technology, and the awesome power (and elitism) of magic and monsters. Magic's more powerful, but technology's more available. How about that?