Standing in the way of technology

[durath]

yep I'm sure

The elves already have time to do the things they love. They live in harmony with nature not constantly fighting it to make a bigger stone castle to subjugate peasants into slave labor.

I'm not talking wheels and levers tech. I'm talking about the kind of tech which destroys a world. Burning coal, depleting fossil fuels, etc.

Basically, pick an environmental issue which threatens our world on a global scale which is due to technology-that is the sort of tech the elves oppose. They got no prblem with a wheel.

 

[Sixchan]

Re: keep this in mind

This relates to the case I am specifiaclly in.

The elves by the vast majority do live in the forests and shun cities and such. Also the other races of this world are all expansionistic while the elves are fighting to maintian what they have. They just don't want their pristine beautiful world befowled as countless others have.

SO the fight might be brought to the elves if the humans, with their new shiny tech weapons, decide they want more elven lands.

I don't see why Humans, as a race, would. A Technological nation might want it, but there is no reason to assume the other technomancies would side with the invader over the elves.

Also, as Limper pointed out both sides have magic but only one wants tech. Would that make it impossible to win for the elves since they shun tech? I think not.

Unless the elves have some IMPRESSIVE magic, I think it is. But that's just IMHO.

I think the elves could rally all(or at least a majority) magical creatures(fey, dragons etc) and other humanoids even that fear or loathe tech to their cause.

What races, aside from the fey and dragons would this be? If the Humans are responsibile, i.e. every time they cut down a tree they plant a new one and don't cut down the trees of dryads and such, then I don't see why the fey would be so against it. And I'm sure that you could use magic to create wood.

Also how would technology even get out of its infancy if the elves(and their allies) where on the lookout for its development and actively tried to wipe it out?

Well, I believe that the combined might of all the raes except elves s enough to kill the elves, with or without technology. Technology is a nice bonus, but there are plenty of Human spellcasters, and should there be war between Humans and Elves, you can bet those Kobold Sorcerors would be getting all the help they need. Imagine...Orcs and Ogres marching in legion formations...bye bye, Elves...

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Re: keep this in mind

I think the elves could rally all(or at least a majority) magical creatures(fey, dragons etc) and other humanoids even that fear or loathe tech to their cause.

I would have to go through the MM, but my guess is there would be more monsters on the side against the elves then for them. Goblinoids alone would make a huge shift in numbers- and probably be the main source of any large battles. Armed and sent into elven lands to bring the battle to them.

Also how would technology even get out of its infancy if the elves(and their allies) where on the lookout for its development and actively tried to wipe it out?

It all depends on how you view elves. If they have large enough numbers and means to scry for such things, then they might have a chance for suppression against most races that live above ground. Dwarves would be more of a challenge- especially if they start arming their above ground neighbours.

But you stated elves live in forests and shun cities- well, that would make it a bit harder to keep tabs on what those pesky humans and such are up to at the moment.

They could employ other races to spy for them, but like they are going to trust some race with a moth-like existance to give them reliable information. So, it may fall on ambassadors and such to spy on the advances of the cities. If they suspect a specific city is going to far, then they might try to buy out the people involved. Or manipulate other enemies of the city to invade- allowing the elves to sweep their worries under the carpet.

Of course, as I suggested before, I suspect wizards would be jumping for technological advances. Once a wizard guild begins to suspect the elves are trying to undermine them, then you have the makings of a covert cold war between elves and pro-technology. Neither side wanting to show its hand to the other- so they spend most of their time spying on the other.

SD

 

[WayneLigon]

I guess it depends on the metaphysics of your world. In many books, magic and technology are enemies. In many others, they work together. I'm assuming arcane magic all along, here. If the Gods don't want an industrial revolution to occur, then it won't.

Monte Cook's Ptolus game seems to have a great way of dealing with it: magic is an expression of Law, so magic and machinery get along just peachy. Technology is controlled by the fact that, socially and politically, things are falling apart. The tech level is actually falling as skilled craftsmen get fewer and people forget how to make the wonderful devices of the ancients.

Could magic stop an industrial revolution? I think so, very handily, but with one major caveat: the magic users have to recognize what's happening early enough. The Revolution was already brewing in several places, but once the rising number and quality of inovations (along with things that allow those innovations to take place, such as increased literacy) reaches a certain critical mass then it might be too late.

Remember that the big advantage technology has is that anyone can use it. Magic is almost always either very hard to learn, limited to certain people, or both. Wizards will be outnumbered by the technologists, but magic can do a lot that technology cannot do.

If they recognize it (and they may, through prophecy and divinations - a major advantage that magic has), then it might be easy. various mind control magics, Domination, Suggestion.. all those could persuade Little Hans, who will one day grow up to produce the first workable steam engine, to stay on the farm and never leave it. Or, his village simply gets hit by a plague and everyone dies. Stuff like that.

Hardy's Oath of Empire series has a remarkable way of keeping magic going while stifling technology. Go read it.

I think if any race would try to stop it, it would be the elves if they behave like most people have them behave. Druids will, as well. Druids even hate farms, much less factories.

The environmental spoilage that comes with the baby steps of the industrial revolution (which we are still taking) is probably going to occur anyway. The people that CAN do things like Purify Water are too few and far between, and they can only affect so much water per day.

Wish and Miracle come into play, really, dependant on what the DM is willing to allow. If Wishes like 'I wish all the air over the kingdom of Konradia remained pure regardless of what the factories do' are valid, then the revolution will come, and come quickly. Even quicker if something like 'I Wish that I knew of a means to create a non-polluting factory' is valid.

 

[Ravellion]

Industrial society need huge amounts of energy, and in the beginning that comes from fossil fuels.

As a druid or Cleric of a nature deity you don't attack the polluting factories and powerplants... you attack mines, logging facilities and oil wells.

An earthquake spell would do nicely for a mine, for logging facilities you would just cast ironwood on a lot of trees in the forest (similar to the iron pin that is inserted into trees by activists in recent times) etc.

An other interesting idea then however, is using magic as energy to run factories and power plants. The factory would employ mages, equip them with the necessary research for them to learn specialised efficient energy generating spells (since heating stuff up with burning hands in order to generate steam in order to generate movement is not very efficient).

edit: How much XP would it cost to create a magical perpetual motion machine?

Rav

 

[Sixchan]

Industrial society need huge amounts of energy, and in the beginning that comes from fossil fuels.

Or Magic. Electricity spells and fire spell work well.

As a druid or Cleric of a nature deity you don't attack the polluting factories and powerplants... you attack mines, logging facilities and oil wells.

An earthquake spell would do nicely for a mine, for logging facilities you would just cast ironwood on a lot of trees in the forest (similar to the iron pin that is inserted into trees by activists in recent times) etc.

Pretty soon, you'd see antimagic fields popping up in mines, and new spells would undoubtedly be researched. Something like Wall of Wood. Or Woodiron.

An other interesting idea then however, is using magic as energy to run factories and power plants. The factory would employ mages, equip them with the necessary research for them to learn specialised efficient energy generating spells (since heating stuff up with burning hands in order to generate steam in order to generate movement is not very efficient).

This is probably how it would be done. I think in one of the more recent Dragon mags (December's?) there was a cantrip to heat water.

edit: How much XP would it cost to create a magical perpetual motion machine?

Rav

Tons?

 

[Leopold]

the coming of the IR is nigh...

 

[Sagan Darkside]

edit: How much XP would it cost to create a magical perpetual motion machine?

ehh, too complex.

Two options:

1) Zombies turning a treadmill.

2) You just want a small, carefully watched, portal to the plane of fire used to continually heat water into steam.

Possibly another portal to the plane of air- all the air stacks of the factories piped into it. No pollution for the prime.

As magic and technology really advance- you begin to have mining expeditions into the plane of earth.

SD

 

[jester47]

I think watching Ralph Bakshi's Wizards might give some ideas, maybe.

"I want to show you a trick ma taught me when you wern't arround..."

Aaron

 

[Limper]

You would have to pipe the smoke to the Paraplane of smoke... I think the denizens of the plane of air would get rather miffed if you pumped smoke into their plane, don't you?