Standing up from prone and AoO

[Hypersmurf]

Don't see how that's any different than any other melee attack.

If you've got the PHB there, check the table of action types.

I'm not sure what it says in 3.5, but in 3.0, Grapple, Trip, and Disarm are Action Type: Varies, with a footnote mark indicating that they can be performed as part of a full attack action, or once on an attack or charge action, or even on an AoO.

Strike a Weapon is Action Type: Standard, and lacks the footnote mark. Thus, you cannot strike a weapon in 3.0 as part of a charge, full attack (including Whirlwind Attack), or AoO, nor can you make use of the Spring Attack or Expertise feats while Striking a Weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[youspoonybard]

Yeah. I saw that too. Unchanged from 3.5.

Now, to actually add something to this discussion. The table is on page 141.

What I'm confused about is what actions you can take on an AoO. From the text, it looks like I can Disarm, Grapple, and Trip. Is this correct?

 

[DrSpunj]

If you've got the PHB there, check the table of action types.

Ask and ye shall receive:

Long answer:
rPHB, pg. 141, Table 8-2: Actions in Combat

Standard Action:
Sunder a weapon (attack)
Sunder an object (attack)
No footnotes!

Action Type Varies:
Disarm (footnote #7)
Grapple (footnote #7)
Trip an opponent (footnote #7)

Footnote #7: These attack forms substitute for a melee attack, not an action. As melee attacks, they can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or even as an attack of opportunity.

Short answer: Hasn't changed from 3.0 to 3.5.

DrSpunj

 

[Waldo]

If you use that logic, then the table also says,
Standard Action:
Attack (melee)
No footnotes

Therefore you can't make a melee attack as an AoO.

I'm mostly just being difficult. I think Sunder would be under Action Varies if that's what they wanted. But so should Attack (melee) then.

Edit: It should also say that Sunder is a Standard action under its description, like it does for Bull Rush and Feint for example. For consistencies' sake. Now it just says, melee attack. Which is allowed as an AoO, no?

eh? eh?

 

[Hypersmurf]

It would have been nice if there was a 1-line description of the meaning. Same with Cleave, I have difficulties in imagining what does it look like to cleave.

I notice Cleave gets a special excpetion in the 3.5 SRD, under Full Attack:

"Cleave: The extra attack granted by the Cleave feat or Great Cleave feat can be taken whenever they apply. This is an exception to the normal limit to the number of attacks you can take when not using a full attack action."

Which is strong support for Cleave-off-AoO = Okay.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Therefore you can't make a melee attack as an AoO.

Except an AoO is a melee attack, by default. It's not the Attack (melee) action, it's an AoO.

Edit: It should also say that Sunder is a Standard action under its description, like it does for Bull Rush and Feint for example. For consistencies' sake.

I agree completely. It's something you'd expect them to fix in a revision.

-Hyp.

 

[Waldo]

Except an AoO is a melee attack, by default. It's not the Attack (melee) action, it's an AoO

Oh, I know. Just a bit of logic to make a point. The only reason we're disallowing Sunder is that it's listed as a Standard action and doesn't have a footnote. If we kept that logic things break immediately, and we can't use Attack (melee), which is silly because that's obviously the melee attack we're substituting the 'varied' action for. That's all I'm saying. There's nothing that says, without doubt, that you can't use a Sunder during an AoO if this logic breaks so fast.

I, of course, am agreeing with you. I see their intent. I just think they missed a spot.

What else is new?

No multiple sunderings for you! Eagle claw or not! Not even with Haste. Zzzzip... zip it!