Standing up from prone and AoO

[Number47]

I would agree that the caster being tripped should make a concentration check versus violent movement.

Note that an AoO doesn't prevent an action. If you use your AoO to do damage to someone getting up from prone, it does not prevent him from getting up. The exception is the AoO from initiating a grapple.

A prone person may try to avoid the AoO altogether by taking a 5-foot step (more like a roll), then standing up. They can't move any more that round, but hopefully they are outside your threat range.

If you have a spiked chain and combat reflexes, that guy might never get up again. Stand from prone, AoO trip, prone again. Try to stand with rest of action, AoO trip, prone again.

 

[Tellerve]

Interestingly they have a 5' crawl is a MEA that provokes an AoO, page 142 phb 3.5

I would be inclined to say you could roll 5' as your 5', although then there wouldn't be much of a reason for this crawl thing being mentioned.

Tellerve

 

[Grayhawk]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems people are torn as to how this should be handled, so I've mailed my question to Andy Collins, to see what he says (if he gets back to me, I'll post his reply here.)

In the meantime, could those of you with the inclination please check out this thread in House Rules, regarding a possible streamlining of tripping and other combat actions.

Thanks

 

[Waldo]

I think they included the 5' crawl as a MEA that draws an AoO to prevent people from doing just what we're suggesting. They don't want people to 5' away and then stand up to avoid the AoO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think they included the 5' crawl as a MEA that draws an AoO to prevent people from doing just what we're suggesting. They don't want people to 5' away and then stand up to avoid the AoO.

Even worse, there never used to be a rule that you couldn't move your speed while prone...

-Hyp.

 

[Tellerve]

right, but seriously, your normal move while prone?

Tellerve

 

[Hypersmurf]

right, but seriously, your normal move while prone?

Perhaps not, but what is a reasonable speed? Half speed? Quarter speed? 5' as a Move action? 5' as a Full Round Action?

In 3.0 there was nothing to suggest to the DM what was reasonable. In 3.5 they've made a decision.

Personally, I think 5' in six seconds seems a little short, and it also doesn't scale with speed at all. The halfling in full plate can crawl as fast as the hill giant barbarian with Expeditious Retreat.

-Hyp.

 

[Waldo]

I think they meant it to be as undesirable as possible. Not to mention that people who run real fast might not go much faster than the portliest of folk once their flopping about on the ground in combat.

It's WotC way of saying, "Stand up, you idjit!"

 

[LGodamus]

I like it alot...it is good ...and the peasants rejoiced (cheers)

 

[Li Shenron]

Guys, IMHO everywhere, ok?

Even if the AoO happens during the action that triggers it, does it prevent the action from being completed after the AoO is resolved?

No. You can say that an AoO happens at the same time of the provoking action, even if the roll is done before (I can't remember if there are free actions which provoke AoO). But I don't think there is any rule that say that a successful AoO disrupt the provoking action, unless specified by case: even a spell is not disrupted by a successful AoO, but only a Concentration check is required, which is not an automatic disruption.

Basically, which of the following is correct:

1: You can't try to trip someone as the AoO you get from him trying to get up, as he's already down when the AoO is triggered.

2: You can try to trip as the AoO you get from someone trying to stand up, but the AoO is resolved before the action of standing and a successful trip attack doesn't prevent him from continuing to stand up after the AoO (and thus finishing the MEA of standing up).

3: You can try to trip as the AoO you get from someone trying to stand up, and a successful trip attack knocks the person back down, making him lose his MEA.

While option 2 seemingly makes trip useless as an AoO provoked by someone trying to get up, it seems to follow the way that most actions that trigger AoO's aren't prevented by a successful AoO.

2: as I said, an AoO doesn't disrupt the provoking action. There is anyway a case which is far worse than this: Disarming as an AoO provoked by a special attack action (such as sundering or disarming without appropriate feats); if you disarm him "while" or "before" his attack, how can he still complete his attack without the weapon? Standing up could be instead be completed within the same MEA (you were prone, as you started standing up you got tripped and you are just as prone as before, but you haven't taken the MEA yet).

Bonus question: If you have Improved Trip do you get to make a free attack if you successful trip on an AoO?

No. Very very debatable, even more than my previous comments... but by the rule that an AoO is a SINGLE melee attack, I would not allow the extra attack, just as I would not allow the use of Cleave.

Bonus question 2: If a caster is tripped during casting, does he still get to make a concentration check to get the spell off?

Not by the standards.

Obviously, any DM may call for specific or favourite rulings in any of the above case if he wishes to be more realistic.

Edit: something.