Star Wars RPG--What Happened?

[LostSoul]

I think it had a lot to do with the old d6 WEG version. People who really wanted to role-play Star Wars probably already had a copy of the d6 game.

When the d20 version came out, its close ties with D&D probably turned a lot of people away from it.

I loved the WEG version. I'll try the d20 version but, unless it is really good, I probably won't stick with it. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

 

[Randolpho]

I've played the d6 version, but haven't played the d20 version. I'd have to say, as a roleplaying system, there isn't really all that much difference, aside from rolling statistics. In fact, when I first heard of how D&D 3e was gonna work (damn, is it 3 years now?), I thought "hey, that's just like Star Wars d6!".

True, d20 has *classes*, but they're "balanced", so does it really matter?

 

[Ranger REG]

I want to believe it Corinth. I and some of my friends have been playing d6 Star Wars for years and when D20 SW have published, we just disappointed. One of my friends have clearly state that he will never ever play d20 SW (FYI, he really loves both SW trilogy and DnD 3e).

Heh. Make a wager with him. If he wants to go back to SW d20 after reading the new Revised Core Rulebook (gee, doesn't WEG have a revised rulebook?), he'll have to do something publicly humiliating, something so shameful that his family would disown him ... and remove his name from their wills and living trusts. Hehehe.

IMHO, there were 2 very big problems. Classes, and starship/vehicle combat.

Classes are not balanced at all. And for role playing purpose, old d6's templates were far much better. Also, I hate some very popular character concepts being prestige class (bounty hunter! starship pilot!). Also, I can't really understand why Soldier, expected to be a combat expert, have the worst defense value.

He is supposed to rely on armor. Of course, when you do not allow armor bonus to stack with Class Defense bonus it falls apart at higher level.

Personally, I'd rather give him 1d12 vitality die per level. That way he can stay in battle for a longer period of time, converting those fatal blows into minor injuries.

As for the prestige class, Bounty Hunter could have been taken at a much lower level (lower the requirements). Starship Ace (not Starship Pilot) should be left where it is.

Starship/vehicle have fixed AC and skill of the pilot was almost irrelevant. It is definitely NOT Star Wars like. In d20 SW, Millennium Falcon cannot survive the attack of Star Destroyer Devastator.

And, why we cannot play droids in this edition? I must allowed to be a protocol droid!

The Star Wars Gamer magazine offered rules for playing a droid PC (issue #004?). There is also a sneak peek at an improved starship combat rules system (issue #008) and it uses square grids.

In any case, fans wanted them and WotC listened. They're adding them into the upcoming Revised Core Rulebook.

By the way, one of my friends have mixed d20 SW with DnD3e and ran a fantasy/space opera campaign. And they were enjoying it. So, maybe d20 SW was just not SW-like and not so bad as a kind of space opera RPG.

Maybe you folks should try out Dragonstar by Fantasy Flight Games.

 

[Green Knight]

The revision of D20 Star Wars will fix a great many of these problems. Armor will now impart DR vs. Wound damage instead of adding to Defense (AC), the classes will receive a redesign to conform to the better customer feedback ideas (see the Noble at WotC's SWRPG site), Attacks of Opportunity will be included (at last!) and the starship combat rules will be rebuilt entirely.

Can you provide a link, please? This is the first I've heard of it, though it sounds good. Boy, am I glad I didn't get the Star Wars RPG when it first came out. I think I'll wait for the revised edition. When will it be released?

 

[Gargoyle]

Can you provide a link, please? This is the first I've heard of it, though it sounds good. Boy, am I glad I didn't get the Star Wars RPG when it first came out. I think I'll wait for the revised edition. When will it be released?

http://www.wizards.com/starwars/article.asp?x=rpg,3&c=rpg

It's out in May, around the time of Episode 2. Which begs the question, "Did they create a new revision due to customer demand, or because of the movie?"

I think the answer is yes to both. I'm just wondering how long they were planning to do it.

Regardless, I'm going to run a campaign after the new revision is out. Probably I'll set it well after the events of the current books, with a timeline of events of my own choosing. That way I can include as many jedi and sith as I like, and can have all the technology and other options of the upcoming books.

 

[Henry@home]

Just a few comments on some of the points raised by earier posters:

AoO's are back - I say "Yay" also. The first time one of my players heard there were no AoO's and that you could NOT fire a blaster within the threat range, his first thought was, "What the Heck???"

d20 having no variation between personal-scale and starship scale - Actually, the EXACT thing could be said about d6 scaling systems. When the WEG Star Wars 2E book came out, it had the die caps solution to different scales, which worked fairly well, though you occastionally had some off situations. When they then changed in the revised book to just dice scaling, it became strangely easy for a high-dice Jedi using a force point to cleave through a capital ship like butter. I know - because Oncarou na Gabriel (PC in our game) managed to do so once.

d6 Having more of the Star Wars "feel" - I admit, unfortunately, that I agree with this statement. Being able to do multiple actions was fun, and the fairly loose rules really made people inspire to do "Star Wars"-like actions, such as pilot a ship through an asteroid field, WHILE firing a blaster at a cockpit intruder to hold him off, JUST SO you can simultaneously repair a navigation circuit in the control panel beneath your pilot's seat...

Not including "Bounty Hunter, Starship Ace" at First level - In all sincerity - these things are the very Definition of Prestige classes. Not every bounty hunter is worthy of the name at first. This thing I did despise in the WEG game - why SHOULD every bounty hunter start as worthy of the title - Boba Fett did not start life as a bounty hunter - Boba Fett had childhood, then grew into a stalker of men for money, and took time to build the skills that would make him a Bounty Hunter, worthy of the title.

Personnally, I would have made Jedi Knight and Jedi Master Prestige classes as well - each one taking 5 levels to fulfill, and adding special powers as you went. Every force user of the Jedi Tradition would be a Guardian or Counselor, and they could stay a "padawan" their whole lives, or they could aspire to be a Knight or Master.

Prestige classes for these things give someone something to aspire to. In truth, why couldn't a Scout or Fringer or soldier become a Bounty Hunter or a Ace fighter pilot - or Claim to be, and then they manage to grow into the job.

Starship Combat in d20 is inferior - In truth, people have been claiming this since Star Wars d20 hit the scene, and I agree. A game like Star Wars absolutely needs a good starship combat system - otherwise, what's the darned point trying to make a Starship Ace? In my experience, making a scene like the Death Star trench run is rather sterile in the d20 system right now. IMHO the very first WEG Star Wars edition had the best, loosest, simplified and fast-moving and fun system to date.

I eagerly await the changes in the Star Wars d20 edition.

 

[Welverin]

Regardless, I'm going to run a campaign after the new revision is out. Probably I'll set it well after the events of the current books, with a timeline of events of my own choosing. That way I can include as many jedi and sith as I like, and can have all the technology and other options of the upcoming books.

Or you could do the complete opposite and set it during the Tales of the Jedi/Old Republic era. As many Jedi and Sith as you could want and so far removed from anything it doesn't matter what you do.

 

[Eosin the Red]

We had a long running d6 WEG SW campaign - and I did not play a jedi.

During the big combat scenes the 3 Jedi didn't even remotely need the two scubs, after they hit 5-6d. Even WotC Proofreaders get more respect than we did. The most demoralizing game I have played. Never understood the attraction to it.

 

[Ranger REG]

Just a few comments on some of the points raised by earier posters:

d6 Having more of the Star Wars "feel" - I admit, unfortunately, that I agree with this statement. Being able to do multiple actions was fun, and the fairly loose rules really made people inspire to do "Star Wars"-like actions, such as pilot a ship through an asteroid field, WHILE firing a blaster at a cockpit intruder to hold him off, JUST SO you can simultaneously repair a navigation circuit in the control panel beneath your pilot's seat...

While multiple action was cool at low level, it was getting ridiculous when you advanced to an experienced character in d6.

It got to the point where you're not playing Star Wars but the "Rise of the Uber Jedi" (like Clark Kent with a lightsaber).

Not including "Bounty Hunter, Starship Ace" at First level - In all sincerity - these things are the very Definition of Prestige classes. Not every bounty hunter is worthy of the name at first. This thing I did despise in the WEG game - why SHOULD every bounty hunter start as worthy of the title - Boba Fett did not start life as a bounty hunter - Boba Fett had childhood, then grew into a stalker of men for money, and took time to build the skills that would make him a Bounty Hunter, worthy of the title.

While I agree with you, I think one should try to lower the requirement a bit, to allow earlier entry into that career path. Right now, all prestige class have a minimum level 7 entry (i.e., you can select a level in a prestige class at character level 7).

Personnally, I would have made Jedi Knight and Jedi Master Prestige classes as well - each one taking 5 levels to fulfill, and adding special powers as you went. Every force user of the Jedi Tradition would be a Guardian or Counselor, and they could stay a "padawan" their whole lives, or they could aspire to be a Knight or Master.

Prestige classes for these things give someone something to aspire to. In truth, why couldn't a Scout or Fringer or soldier become a Bounty Hunter or a Ace fighter pilot - or Claim to be, and then they manage to grow into the job.

If the Star Wars Gamer #008 (pages 98 & 99) is any indication (i.e., a new Luke Skywalker's stat), then you will see a Jedi Master prestige class.

Starship Combat in d20 is inferior - In truth, people have been claiming this since Star Wars d20 hit the scene, and I agree. A game like Star Wars absolutely needs a good starship combat system - otherwise, what's the darned point trying to make a Starship Ace? In my experience, making a scene like the Death Star trench run is rather sterile in the d20 system right now. IMHO the very first WEG Star Wars edition had the best, loosest, simplified and fast-moving and fun system to date.

Well, perhaps you should check out Star Wars Gamer #008. It has a sneak peek at the new starship combat rules system. The fact that it is using map and counters/tokens bring back that old-school wargaming feel ... but with the rapid combat resolution you find in a typical RPG session.

I eagerly await the changes in the Star Wars d20 edition.

It won't be long now. We're less than 2 month until the release of the next movie and the revised rulebook.

 

[Jhamin]

I think we may be off on the wrong trail here.

The Star Wars game is apparently not meeting sales expectations. The game mechanic problems we are discussing here are surely not helping, but do you think that the problems with prestige classes are really keeping your average fan from buying the book?

What is keeping the average "gotta get all the neat stuff" movie fans from picking up the game?